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From "Barnhill William" <barnhill_will...@bah.com>
Subject Re: Service and Component Frameworks
Date Sat, 29 Nov 2003 19:09:38 GMT

I went to the first URL. Great resource!

 From reading it and associated URLs it seems that HiveMind is for total 
fluidity and Avalon is for total IoC,  almost two extremes along an 
axis. Based on my experience total freedom is giving most people enough 
rope to hang themselves.  But, I've used Avalon and haven't used 
HiveMind. I like the IoC pattern a lot, but it does sometimes get in the 
way, especially for very small utilitarian components.  Seems like a 
balance could be struck, perhaps Avalon with Eclipse style extension 
points? I also have not used Cornerstone, this may be exactly what they 

As for AOP, I can see where it could have benefits. You can hear the 
'but' coming, can't you? From what I've seen, and based on a recent 
article you can do pretty much everything AOP can do with delegators. 
Delegators is perhaps wrong term, someone feel free to correct me with 
the right term, dynamic proxies perhaps?.  I think the article was in 
Java Developer's Journal.

The biggest drawback to AOP, for me, is security. I explain to any 
security auditor that the binary code is rewritten on the fly as the 
classes are loaded and they will fail it right then and there.  Perhaps 
if there wasn't an alternative AOP would have a bigger draw, but I've 
broached AOP with other engineers from other companies in my 
environment.  They have all said that the security implications would be 
a show stopper for using AOP.

Not considering Cornerstone, as I've never used it, I would say Avalon 
is the best of a bad set of service frameworks. I know the Avalon folks 
have worked well with the Cocoon folks, maybe they would work with us if 
someone drew up a list of exactly how Avalon doesn't meet our current 
needs (and by implication a list of what exactly our needs are in a 
service framework). I truly hope Jetspeed stays away from AOP, as it 
will rule out Jetspeed's use by many engineers.

Just my half-penny. Not two cents as I'm still very new to Jetspeed2,
Bill Barnhill

David Le Strat wrote:

>There is a lot of good info comparing the differences
>between frameworks at:
>Regarding Hivemind, Howard gave a presentation a while
>back, some more info on Hivemind can be found at:
>It is a neat framework and hopefully the intellectual
>property issue will be resolved soon.  I especially
>like the clean interceptor model.  The substitution
>model would also be quite handy to create clean
>separated modules and substitute common configuration
>from a central configuration point. Finally Hivedoc is
>quite nice in providing a clear picture of the
>dependencies between modules.
>Another interesting approach (which is the approach
>taken by ExoPortal for instance) would be to combine
>AOP with Pico container or Avalon (Merlin seems to be
>the recommended service framework).
>Lots of choices out there.
>What would be the key features that we would be
>looking for?
>--- David Sean Taylor <david@bluesunrise.com> wrote:
>>Im starting a little informal thread discussing
>>Service and Component 
>>Currently we are using Fulcrum in Jetspeed-2.
>>While I do like Fulcrum and it has been very useful
>>for us, there are 
>>now more advanced service frameworks available.
>>All services in J2 are implemented as Common Portlet
>>Services. The goal 
>>of CPS was to act as a layer so that we could more
>>easily swap out 
>>Fulcrum in the future. I think that time has come
>>and we need to start 
>>reviewing the other frameworks and make a decision.
>>The frameworks we have considering are:
>>1. Hivemind
>>2. Pico Container
>>3. Jetspeed Cornerstone (not to be confused with
>>Avalon Cornerstone)
>>4. Avalon
>>I really like what I've seen in Hivemind, however
>>the current licensing 
>>issues concern me.
>>I also think that Cornerstone, contributed by the
>>Cisco team to 
>>Jetspeed, is very powerful.
>>Are there other service frameworks we should be
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