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From David Nalley <>
Subject Re: Podlings, the Incubator, relationships and Apache
Date Wed, 03 Jul 2019 22:13:02 GMT
On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 4:59 PM Jim Jagielski <> wrote:
> > On Jul 3, 2019, at 2:37 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <> wrote:
> >
> >
> > This is correct. Provided we *do* explicitly acknowledge that special
> > status of the Incubator.
> >
> > This acknowledgement will basically put podling source code releases
> > at the same level we have convenience binary releases. Which is: they
> > are NOT acts of the foundation.
> >
> IMO, we want 2 things:
>   1.  Podlings, and PPMC members, to enjoy the legal protection of the foundation when
they do a release
>   2. The outside world, and esp downstream end-users, to know that podling releases should
be expected to not be fully compliant with the normal expectations associated w/ PMC releases.
> #1 requires them to be acts of the foundation; #2 requires easily visible and discoverable
> Anything else just seems excessive and somewhat unwarranted, I think. Let's make it as
easy as possible, and as painless as possible, for podlings to learn; Heck, at the start of
The Apache Group and the ASF, we didn't do everything right; we tried some things and some
failed. It's in the nature of education and mentoring. Making mistakes is not a problem; not
learning from them is.
> After we resolve this, I *really* would like to switch the convo around to a discussion
as deep, and as involved, but related to the other (IMO, more important) side of the Incubator
coin: education in the Apache Way. So much derives from that... even the legal considerations
of releases ultimately can be found there, IMO. And I still maintain that we do a Not-So-Good
job here.

Well said Jim.

Mistakes are inevitable as long as humans are involved. Regardless of
the process we apply we aren't going to solve that. The incubator can
make 'business' decisions around that risk. However, our legal process
is only side of the coin, and while it's important - we should care
much more about perpetuating and communicating our culture vis-a-vis
the Apache Way.


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