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From Roman Shaposhnik <>
Subject Re: Podlings, the Incubator, relationships and Apache
Date Wed, 03 Jul 2019 21:06:23 GMT
On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 1:59 PM Jim Jagielski <> wrote:
> > On Jul 3, 2019, at 2:37 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <> wrote:
> >
> >
> > This is correct. Provided we *do* explicitly acknowledge that special
> > status of the Incubator.
> >
> > This acknowledgement will basically put podling source code releases
> > at the same level we have convenience binary releases. Which is: they
> > are NOT acts of the foundation.
> >
> IMO, we want 2 things:
>   1.  Podlings, and PPMC members, to enjoy the legal protection of the foundation when
they do a release

Let's be pedantic and define those in this particular case, shall we?
What exactly are the expectations for PPMC members?

>   2. The outside world, and esp downstream end-users, to know that podling releases should
be expected to not be fully compliant with the normal expectations associated w/ PMC releases.
> #1 requires them to be acts of the foundation; #2 requires easily visible and discoverable
> Anything else just seems excessive and somewhat unwarranted, I think. Let's make it as
easy as possible, and as painless as possible, for podlings to learn; Heck, at the start of
The Apache Group and the ASF, we didn't do everything right; we tried some things and some
failed. It's in the nature of education and mentoring. Making mistakes is not a problem; not
learning from them is.
> After we resolve this, I *really* would like to switch the convo around to a discussion
as deep, and as involved, but related to the other (IMO, more important) side of the Incubator
coin: education in the Apache Way. So much derives from that... even the legal considerations
of releases ultimately can be found there, IMO. And I still maintain that we do a Not-So-Good
job here.

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