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From Jim Jagielski <>
Subject Re: Podlings, the Incubator, relationships and Apache
Date Wed, 03 Jul 2019 20:59:26 GMT

> On Jul 3, 2019, at 2:37 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <> wrote:
> This is correct. Provided we *do* explicitly acknowledge that special
> status of the Incubator.
> This acknowledgement will basically put podling source code releases
> at the same level we have convenience binary releases. Which is: they
> are NOT acts of the foundation.

IMO, we want 2 things:

  1.  Podlings, and PPMC members, to enjoy the legal protection of the foundation when they
do a release

  2. The outside world, and esp downstream end-users, to know that podling releases should
be expected to not be fully compliant with the normal expectations associated w/ PMC releases.

#1 requires them to be acts of the foundation; #2 requires easily visible and discoverable

Anything else just seems excessive and somewhat unwarranted, I think. Let's make it as easy
as possible, and as painless as possible, for podlings to learn; Heck, at the start of The
Apache Group and the ASF, we didn't do everything right; we tried some things and some failed.
It's in the nature of education and mentoring. Making mistakes is not a problem; not learning
from them is.

After we resolve this, I *really* would like to switch the convo around to a discussion as
deep, and as involved, but related to the other (IMO, more important) side of the Incubator
coin: education in the Apache Way. So much derives from that... even the legal considerations
of releases ultimately can be found there, IMO. And I still maintain that we do a Not-So-Good
job here.
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