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From Josh Elser <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Significance of Artifact Names
Date Wed, 04 Jan 2017 04:33:53 GMT
John D. Ament wrote:
> So why am I harping on this problem?  The incubator has a series of guides,
> which are partially treated as policy and partially treated as advice.
> Many of these guides remain with large notions of being draft only, not
> finalized, I want to try to get these draft documents finalized so that
> we're able to provide better guidance to podlings coming in.
> I also think its important to keep our policies and guides as light as
> possible.  There shouldn't be a lot different in the incubator than a TLP
> would go through, or else this makes the eventual transition to TLP harder
> since many things previously done are now different.

+1 just to echo that this is a great exercise that you've taken up :)

> One of the distinguishing marks within the incubator is the use of maven.
> The incubator has a best practice that says if your build tool is maven, if
> and when you publish a convenience binary, that convenience binary must
> include either incubator or incubating in the version string [4].  Its not
> clear why maven is singled out, probably because it was the first of its
> kind, other tools didn't exist.  One of the key notes I can find is that
> the downstream redistribution channels are operated outside the ASF [5].
> So while Maven is an apache project, maven central is not an ASF managed
> resource but we are attempting to enforce our internal concerns to an
> outside party.

Agreed that it's strange for Maven to be treated differently. Do we have 
any other systems in which artifacts are automatically promoted to 
non-ASF controlled entities as a part of an ASF release? Does anyone 
have examples handy of where this is done manually? I haven't been 
involved in any project that does either.

I can see value in denoting that projects are incubating at the ASF when 
people aren't acquiring them from dist.a.o (or the project's website). 
Craig's point is really good though too -- there *is* no policy which 
defines what the GAV or java package needs to be for ASF projects. 
Source releases (and convenience binaries) should already be shipped 
with the DISCLAIMER, so is the -incubating really telling people 
anything new?

My gut reaction is "no". Thus, -incubating is duplicative of the 
information already captured and unnecessary.

This intentionally avoids asking the question about the value in 
downstream users "knowing" what the incubator is, what podlings are, and 
the difference between podlings and TLPs are. I think we first need to 
decide if dropping the '-incubator' makes a release not obviously from a 

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