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From Geertjan Wielenga <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Apache NetBeans Incubator Proposal
Date Tue, 27 Sep 2016 08:19:45 GMT
On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 2:30 AM, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:

> Just to make sure that my argument is clearly stated let me make two points
> very, very explicitly:
>    1. I would expect the folks bringing NetBeans to ASF Incubator to have
> had
>     spent reasonable amount of time trying to contact anybody who may feel
> like
>     their level of contributions to NetBeans (past or present) could
> qualify them
>     to be on that list. Contacting doesn't mean they should be
> automatically added
>     to that list, but rather:
>           1.1. made aware what is going to happen to NetBeans soon
>           1.2. given a chance to request being added to the list (like
> we already saw
>                  somebody did on this very thread)
>     2. Precisely because #1 is super time consuming and can't be fool
> proof, we need
>     to make sure that the expectation going in is that anybody who was
> missed as part
>     of outreach described above will be given special considerations
> once the project
>     enters incubation.
> That's it. In fact, I'd rather see #1 and #2 be made part of the
> proposal (you don't
> have to write a thesis -- just a few paragraph) before I will feel
> comfortable about
> casting my vote.

For #1, we contacted a number of different communities around NetBeans to
ask for individual contributors: (1) individuals and organizations within
Oracle who are invested in NetBeans, (2) individuals and organizations who
have built applications on top of the NetBeans Platform and NetBeans IDE,
(3) the NetBeans Dream Team, which is a community of NetBeans enthusiasts
around the world who don't work for Oracle yet advocate NetBeans to their
communities as a free and open source development environment, tooling
platform, and application framework, (4) a subset of the individual
contributors of plugins, published at, (5) the
NetBeans Platform mailing list, which is where potential individual
contributors with NetBeans API knowledge are found.

We have also talked about this a lot and actively last week at JavaOne and
at NetBeans Day. We have tweeted about it. There have been discussions on
internal and external mailing lists.

What can still be done -- track down ex-NetBeans developers who used to
work at Sun or Oracle. Some of these have already been contacted, though
not all of them yet. It's also a question of identifying who these are,
i.e., we don't have a list of these somewhere, we need to recall who worked
with us in the past and contact them on a case by case basis. Something
else that can be done is to contact the NetBeans users mailing list. We
have already done the latter in terms of informing them about the Apache
plans, we have not yet actively asked people to volunteer to be individual
contributors from the NetBeans users mailing list -- I propose we wait to
do that until a bit later because we could end up with literally 100's of
individual contributors if we do that and it might be advisable to keep te
list down to something semi manageable, which is what we have now.

For everyone in the NetBeans community, all this is quite new, the Apache
process, etc. We'll take it step by step. Once we're in incubation, and
we've set up the Wiki, and the mailing lists, we can take the next steps of
appealing more broadly for individual contributors, who we will then vote
in. I'm concerned that the longer we make the initial contributors list and
the more we add to it, the more insulted someone might feel for having been
omitted. :-)

All the above info can be added to the proposal, if this is desirable,
though the long list of individual contributors already there should be
evidence enough in itself that we're working hard on being inclusive and
getting broad involvement in this project.



On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 10:49 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <> wrote:

> Thankl of the below has been done.
> Some more are being added. However at this point the more we add the more
> insulting to those we omit. We've done our best. The list is strong. None
> will commit nothing, all have a history of years being active in one way or
> another in the NetBeans community.
> Gj
> On Monday, September 26, 2016, Emmanuel Lécharny <>
> wrote:
>> Le 26/09/16 à 07:32, Geertjan Wielenga a écrit :
>> > On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 6:52 AM, Alex Harui wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >> But if you are thinking 100 people, I'd try to get it down to 40-ish.
>> >
>> > Seems like a very random number. In the case of NetBeans, that would
>> mean
>> > we'd have few others on the list than those from Oracle, which is not
>> what
>> > we want -- instead, we want to reflect the various communities (Oracle,
>> > NetBeans Platform companies, NetBeans plugin developers, NetBeans Dream
>> > Team members, etc) in our list and yes that's going to result in a
>> number
>> > larger than 40.
>> The number doesn't matter.
>> Just ask the existing committers if they want to keep going under an
>> Apache flag. Some will say yes, add them to the list. Some will say no,
>> don't put them on the list. Some will simply not reply, ask tehm once
>> more just in case they forgot to answer (vacations, etc), and act
>> accordingly to their answer - or non answer . At the end of the day, you
>> have your list.
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