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From Emmanuel Lécharny <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Apache NetBeans Incubator Proposal
Date Sat, 24 Sep 2016 19:07:31 GMT
Le 24/09/16 à 01:25, Roman Shaposhnik a écrit :
> On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 1:48 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
> <> wrote:
>> Hi Wade,
>> On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 11:38 PM, Wade Chandler
>> <> wrote:
>>> ..I can say as a long time contributor who is not on the initial list, I
>>> understand, think it is fine, and agree that being added once we get into
>>> the actual incubation phase makes sense...
>> Thanks!
>> As someone who has mentored several projects here in the last ten
>> years or so I think although people sometimes see a lot of value in
>> being on the initial committers list they should not, IMO.
>> What very often happens during incubation is some people who were on
>> this list almost never contribute to the project, and other expected
>> or unexpected people show up, do great things and get elected as a
>> result.
>> Also, as mentor I will recommend reviewing the list of committers and
>> PMC members shortly before graduation, to give the opportunity to
>> people who didn't actually become active to gracefully retire - if the
>> project governance works it's easy to come back later by becoming
>> active, and the project benefits from having a roster that reflects
>> the reality of active contributors.
>> So in summary people shouldn't put too much value on the initial list
>> of committers, it's just that - an initial list, a kind of draft that
>> will evolve during incubation, and probably evolve a lot for a large
>> project such as NetBeans.
> Well, but they do. In fact, when I was a VP of Incubator a few years
> ago I had to deal with a formal escalation brought to the ASF level
> by somebody who felt unduly left out of that initial list of committers.

Shit happens. But because it happens does not mean we should appy very
bureaucratic rules for all the other projects.

It's enough to *warn* the new podling that they have to be careful. Up
to them to decide which level of check they want to apply.

> If the code one wrote is going into ASF -- and especially if it is a
> non-trivial amount of code, one can certainly expect some considerations.
> This is the same principle as ASF postulates when we say that we
> don't fork the communities. We truly don't. That's why for a project
> as large as NetBeans I think it is important for us to inquire what
> kind of due diligence was done to get the list of initial committers
> just right. Otherwise it is going to be OpenOffice vs. LibreOffice
> type of situation all over again (not that commiters was the key
> issue there -- but you catch my drift).
>>> ...I am able to contribute as much as I can at this stage anyways...
>> Indeed, and that stays true once incubation starts. Even though an
>> Apache PMC ultimately makes all the project decisions, they are
>> expected to listen to their community. The "community" section at
>> expresses that.
> Right. And all I want to get out folks on this thread at this point is two
> things:
>  #1 admission that past contributions will be valued a LOT when it
>       comes to somebody requesting to be added as a committer to the
>       project during incubation
>  #2 a bit of explanation of what was the process to arrive at initial list of
>       committers
>>> ...getting into building a thorough list before hand will
>>> certainly take time away from higher priority items at this stage...
>> Yes, that's why the NetBeans mentors pushed to avoid adding people to
>> the list of initial committers before the incubation vote starts, as
>> for a popular project that's a lot of work with no real value as
>> mentioned above.
> I disagree. Like I said -- being a VP of incubator having to deal with
> that type of escalation was not a fun place to be in.

Yes, but again, just because it happened once is not a valid reason to
burry each project under tons of checks, rules and paperwork.

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