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From Julian Hyde <>
Subject Re: Radical proposal: no initial list of committers
Date Tue, 27 Sep 2016 15:43:40 GMT
+0.5 I like this idea a lot (but there are governance problems to be solved).

I have long been frustrated at folks who jump on the bandwagon and become initial committers
then play no further part in the project. 

Do inactive committers harm the project? No, of course they don’t. But it isn’t fair to
those who get in by pulling their weight.

Now, those inactive committers should be removed when the project graduates, right? No, in
my experience they get to be PMC members. The project is too polite to throw people out (especially
what they perceive as “Apache VIPs”).

And while I’m on that topic: I believe that mentors should not automatically become PMC
members when the project graduates.


> On Sep 27, 2016, at 4:25 AM, Greg Stein <> wrote:
> The NetBeans proposal (among many others in the past) has demonstrated a
> significant "problem" with trying to establish an appropriate list of
> initial committers. There are many people that want to be on, for various
> reasons. Because they are committers, recent or historic. Or they want the
> "prestige" to be there. Some people believe they "deserve" to be on the
> list. etc etc
> Establishing the list is particularly difficult for large and old
> communities.
> But. What if we just said "no such list" ?
> This will shift the initial voting of committers upon the Champion/Mentors
> who will construct the entirety of the PPMC. But hey: aren't they supposed
> to be involved? Aren't they supposed to demonstrate how to earn merit, and
> the committership that results?
> This would also solve the problem of initial committers that have not
> established any merit whatsoever. We've had many situations where people
> simply add themselves to the list. Why? Cuz they chose to do so. It is sort
> of silently allowed for IPMC members to add themselves. "I wanna join!"
> BAM. It happens.
> So yeah. Radical thought: NO initial list. The PPMC is just the Champion +
> Mentors. They will build the committers and PPMC according to merit. (note:
> this could be *very* fast for a particular few highly-engaged with bringing
> the project to the ASF)
> ???
> Cheers,
> -g

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