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From Keith Turner <ke...@deenlo.com>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Fluo Parent POM 1-incubating (rc2)
Date Tue, 02 Aug 2016 14:58:36 GMT
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 8:08 PM, John D. Ament <johndament@apache.org> wrote:
> Ok, now I'm a bit confused.  I'll try my best to state my points of
> clarification in line.
>
> On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 7:37 PM Christopher <ctubbsii@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> I also wish to point out that the FluoProposal (
>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/FluoProposal) explicitly included an
>> intent/wish/request to continue using the Fluo logo (which includes the
>> name) on Fluo's historical sites. That proposal was accepted by the IPMC
>>
>
> I'm confused what this has to do with a logo.  I see now in your proposal
> that there's an explicit call out for the logo.  I'm not sure why.  Its a
> nice logo.  Assuming it was donated as a part of the overall donation, then
> there's no issue reusing it on other sites.
>
>
>> (albeit without an explicit judgment on that issue). While the proposal did
>> not explicitly mention the domain name concerns, it did mention the
>> continued existence of "historical sites" after acceptance, sites whose
>> names could reasonably be expected to contain the Fluo name. I think this
>> is important in determining to what extent it should be considered fair and
>> reasonable to use the word "Fluo" on "fluo.io".
>>
>
> The term "historical" is used in the proposal.  My interpretation of its
> use is that some sites may exist for historical purposes.  It seems that
> the intention however is to keep them going.  The list of sites are not
> mentioned, other than a GitHub site, which I'm not sure if that means
> fluo.github.io, github.com/fluo-io, or something else.  Its not obvious to
> me that this is fluo.io which may be hosted as a github pages website.
>
>
>>
>> At no point in the proposal or vote discussions for Fluo was it mentioned
>> that we'd have to remove or transfer control of the fluo.io domain, in
>> order to be compliant with ASF trademark policies upon acceptance into
>> Incubator, even though it was clear at the time that 1) the domain existed
>> and 2) hosted projects which would transfer to the ASF and projects which
>> would not.
>>
>
> The proposal is a bit missing in this area.  I see a documentation section,
> which mentions the website fluo.io.  Ignoring this discussion, my
> interpretation of this section is that it was being donated.  Yes,
> transference of domain names is expected.  Many projects coming in have
> done this (groovy-lang.org, freemarker.org are some examples).  If it was
> not intended to be transferred, its not clear to me why its mentioned in
> the proposal.
>
>
>
>>
>> Taking this into account, and in conjunction with our intent to fix both
>> websites to reduce confusion, I hope that we can find a resolution which
>> does not require a name change, but can leave both fluo.apache.org and
>> fluo.io coexisting.
>>
>>
> The co-existing part is where you need to talk more to TM and get their buy
> in.  Right now we have a highly inconsistent model at the ASF.
>
>
>> I think our immediate, actionable plan should be to:
>>
>> 1. Remove redirect from fluo.io to fluo.apache.org
>
>
> I'm not sure if you're doing this out of anger or what.  The current setup
> of redirect is fine.
>
>
>>
>> 2. Place content on fluo.io which:
>>   2.a) links to Apache Fluo
>>   2.b) states that Fluo is a trademark of Apache
>>   2.c) clarifies that Fluo.io is not affiliated or endorsed by the ASF
>>   2.d) is primarily focused on the community tools it hosts, and not Apache
>> Fluo
>
> 3. Ensure content on fluo.apache.org is updated to:
>>   3.a) remove pre-apache release or clearly document them.
>>   3.b) remove any implication that Fluo depends on any software at fluo.io
>>   3.c) ensure no dependency on external documentation at fluo.io
>
>
> All of the items under 3 are great graduation goals, and are not needed in
> the short term.
>
>
>>
>> 4. Standardize on a different publicly available checkstyle and formatter
>> ruleset than the io.fluo:resources ones (maybe?)
>>
>
> Just to be clear.  my concern here is shared with the domain name.  If the
> domain name is cleared to be used, I don't have a strong concern on this.
>
>
>>
>> If we're going to expend this effort, it would be nice to get some
>> assurances that this will be sufficient to resolve branding concerns, or if
>> there are additional steps short of changing the domain names, which we can
>> take to resolve these issues.
>>
>
>
> My recommendation is that fluo.io be donated to the ASF and a new domain
> name chosen for the non-ASF community backed site.

When you say donate it to the ASF, I am assumimg you intend that
fluo.io and fluo.apache.org both serve the same content.  Or were you
thinking of something else?

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