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From Marvin Humphrey <>
Subject Re: On Fluo (was Re: [CANCEL][VOTE] Fluo Parent POM 1-incubating (rc2))
Date Wed, 03 Aug 2016 00:29:03 GMT
On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 12:57 PM, Josh Elser <> wrote:

> - I think there is a very fair point brought up by Craig/Justin/John at
> the gray line between "Apache Fluo" and "". However, I will say
> that I do *not* think this is remotely close to the level that we've
> seen in other TLPs as of late (will avoid explicit finger-pointing).
> That said, I think the outcome that the PPMC has came to on their own as
> next steps is healthy (see dev@fluo list). I also plan to address why
> some of these software tools which were developed in tandem with Fluo
> (pre-Apache) were not included with the original incubation proposal (I
> hadn't realized they were listed on the website as they were). I would
> venture most are unintentional omissions as the website came verbatim
> from pre-Apache fluo.  The podling has already been responsive to my
> nit-picks on ASF and Incubator branding requests that I put forth to
> them.

One of the things we're most concerned about with usage of our trademarks
is project independence.  Apache projects are governed by their individual
contributors.  There must not be another entity which exerts undue
influence over an Apache project, and an Apache project must not unduly
advantage a single commercial entity.

We learned a lot from the experience of Couchbase.  Originally Couchbase
(née CouchOne) was a great friend of Apache CouchDB, employing several
people who made important contributions.  However, it later split away and
became a competitor -- and by then it was too late to protest their use of
"Couch*".  To this day, there remains confusion in the marketplace between
CouchDB and Couchbase.  The damage to the Apache CouchDB community has
been severe and ongoing.

    2. You need to apply branding rules consistently. We allowed Couchbase
    (and others) to share our brand because they were seen as "friendly"
    to the community. (And indeed, for many years, they were hugely
    beneficial for the project.) Unfortunately, that sets precedent. And
    it's hard to rewind precedent. It also leaves you vulnerable to the
    possibility that they won't always be "friendly". At which point,
    you're gonna be SOL.

In response to Couchbase and several other similarly traumatic incidents,
today we work harder to review trademark usage and protect our
communities.  Perhaps this helps the Fluo podling to understand why is receiving such attention.

Marvin Humphrey

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