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From Julian Hyde <>
Subject Re: Concerted may be in need of help
Date Thu, 07 Apr 2016 18:17:50 GMT
I agree. I think this project has been dead for a while, and we’re just prolonging the agony.

If we were to wind up the project, how would we proceed? A vote on concerted's dev list with
lazy consensus, I presume?

Is there any reason why I should not start a discussion/vote right now?


> On Apr 7, 2016, at 10:50 AM, Chris Nauroth <> wrote:
> Hello John,
> Thank you for bringing up the topic again.  As a Concerted mentor, I was
> planning to do the same today.
> Just to confirm your observations, you are correct that there has been no
> further visible progress.  The only activity on the mailing list is from
> the mentors asking if anything is going on and reminding the community to
> file their reports.  Again, there is no report.
> I'm not demanding any specific amount of activity, but complete lack of
> any activity sure makes it look like the podling is not viable.  I don't
> think there is any remaining action that could be done by either the
> mentors or the wider Incubator community to salvage it, but I'm certainly
> open to suggestions if anyone disagrees.
> --Chris Nauroth
> On 4/7/16, 5:49 AM, "John D. Ament" <> wrote:
>> Sorry to bring back this long dead topic, but wanted to rehash what was
>> discussed here.
>> We're now 3 months later, and it seems that Concerted has not improved.
>> is
>> it time to call it?
>> John
>> On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 3:58 PM Ross Gardler <>
>> wrote:
>>> +1
>>> Everyone should read the subject and reset.
>>> If IPMC members having nothing better to offer than "give up" then
>>> please
>>> refrain from offering your advice to mentors asking for constructive
>>> help.
>>> That is not to say projects should linger, but unless mentors advise it
>>> we
>>> should not be interfering.
>>> Ross
>>> Sent from my Windows Phone
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Julian Hyde<>
>>> Sent: ?1/?9/?2016 12:37 PM
>>> To:<>
>>> Subject: Re: Concerted may be in need of help
>>> (Removing dev@concerted from the To: list.)
>>> Good grief. No one is suggesting there should be "steady activity
>>> requirement". I and other Concerted mentors just have a hunch that the
>>> project isn't doing well, and thought it would be better to bring our
>>> concerns to this list earlier rather than later. Let's not turn it
>>> into a debate over policy. If anyone can think of ways to help this
>>> project, then we'd love to hear your ideas. If you can't think of ways
>>> to help the project, or don't think the project needs to be helped,
>>> then don't help.
>>> Julian
>>> On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 12:21 PM, William A Rowe Jr <>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Chris Nauroth
>>> <>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> As a Concerted mentor, I agree with the concern about lack of
>>> activity.  I
>>>>> think this was a difficult month for the project considering both the
>>>>> general drop in participation and the typical drop in activity that
>>> we
>>>>> should expect to happen around the end-of-year holidays.  The monthly
>>>>> reporting schedule implicitly requires that an incubating project
>>> show
>>>>> some kind of demonstrable progress month-to-month.  Still, other
>>> podlings
>>>>> did manage to sustain activity and complete a report during this
>>> time.
>>>>> I see John has already raised concern about lack of activity in the
>>>>> mentor/shepherd notes.  I just seconded that myself.
>>>>> Can we consider giving the PPMC a chance to reset and aim to
>>> re-establish
>>>>> steady activity this month?
>>>> What is the steady activity requirement that has been injected into
>>>> incubation?
>>>> There are plenty of examples of projects that have enjoyed months and
>>> some
>>>> years of lull between bursts of activity, usually around new
>>> requirements
>>>> and
>>>> interests by patch submittors or committers.
>>>> By this reconning, there have been a number of times measured in
>>> weeks or
>>>> months that the httpd and tomcat projects should have been folded.
>>> Do we
>>>> really believe that a steady state of activity is healthy?  On the
>>>> contrary, it
>>>> is the bursts of new activity that lead our projects into new and
>>>> interesting
>>>> territory, not an n commits/mo target.
>>>> That said, we don't want podlings to linger here; release early,
>>> release
>>>> often,
>>>> demonstrate that new contributors are recognized as committers/[p]pmc
>>>> members, and show us [incubator] that there isn't much more mentorship
>>>> required for the effort to proceed in the model of the ASF.  A project
>>> that
>>>> cannot get to a point of release in some reasonable time, e.g. a year
>>> or
>>>> two, or who takes down their shingle and announces they can't attract
>>> a
>>>> three+ community to sustain their effort, such projects should be
>>> retired.
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