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From Markus Geiß <mge...@mifos.org>
Subject Re: [PORPOSAL] Fineract
Date Sun, 06 Dec 2015 10:43:06 GMT
Hey all,

hope this finds you well. : o)

For now I'll leave my Jedi mind power aside:

As part of the proposing community I was following this conversation with
mixed feelings. On one side I think it is good to see some healthy
conversation about a topic, on the other side it feels a bit weird to see
such a conversation rising on top of our proposal.

We, as a community, will welcome anybody who wants to work with us and
contribute whatever kind of knowledge, understanding, support, or even code
; o).

Now I will turn my Jedi mind power on:

I love to see the interest of so many skilled members and their offer to
mentor. And I believe, if they are strongly heading towards becoming a
mentor they had replied to this thread explaining why they believe the
decision we made in regards to number of mentors is bad. Maybe this was
unclear, we as a community talked about the numbers of mentors we believe
is healthy to us, it was not a decision made by Ross or any other mentor we
have nominated.

Joining Apache, preparing the proposal, nominating the initial committers,
and agreeing on mentors is a process governed by our community by having a
healthy discussion and finding consensus on all of these things.

We have a saying here in Germany: "Zu viele Köche verderben den Brei."
(translates to: "Too many cooks spoil the broth."), and we believe that a
selected number of mentors will help us understanding the Apache process
even better than having a large number of people arguing for the arguing's
sake. (Sorry if this is too offensive, but this conversation felt like this
to me.)

Cheers



*Markus Geiss*
Chief Architect
RADAR, The Mifos Initiative
mgeiss@mifos.org | Skype: mgeiss.mifos.org | Mobil: +49.152.295.05306 |
http://mifos.org  <http://facebook.com/mifos>
<http://www.twitter.com/mifos>



On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 5:47 AM, Ross Gardler <Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com>
wrote:

> I'll repeat again, we want contributors who will work within the
> community. Nobody is turned  away.
>
> Sent from my Windows Phone
> ________________________________
> From: Tim Williams<mailto:williamstw@gmail.com>
> Sent: ‎12/‎5/‎2015 8:15 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org<mailto:general@incubator.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: [PORPOSAL] Fineract
>
> On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 12:41 PM, Ross Gardler
> <Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > Nobody is turned away.
>
> Jedi mind tricks won't work on me Ross:)  When someone says, "We are
> not seeking more." it is the same as being turned away.
>
> For the rest of it, I reckon we'll have to agree to disagree.  The
> bottom line is, someone [Jim] who's eminently qualified to help mentor
> a new group of folks volunteered.  It's fair to assume that he, I, and
> you understand that he understood what that role was when he
> volunteered.
>
> >Mentors don't do the work. Contributors do. Mentors do not make
> decisions. Contributors so. Mentors have " binding votes" but that is just
> because of the structure we have in the ASF, a good mentor will only ever
> use that vote to enact the wishes of the community.
>
> I understand just as well as you how things work Ross. Please check
> yourself before going into condescending-lecture-mode, it's remarkably
> uncool and uninviting. As a dood, its really weird to be mansplained
> to!  But, thanks Champ!
>
> > This is the opposite of "counter cultural".
>
> Which would be... cultural?  Meaning, you're suggesting it's the norm
> to turn away ridiculously qualified volunteers for a particular role
> in a community?
>
> > Contributors are what matter not mentors.
>
> Seems another mind trick.  While in incubation mentors are
> contributors - contributors to cultural understanding.  They
> contribute to helping a podling bootstrap in our infrastructure and
> grok the Apache Way.  To turn away a potential mentor is to turn away
> a contributor.  Ignoring a mentor's impact/contributions to a
> community seems naive at best.
>
> Regardless of the semantics, on a practical level, a person like Jim
> shows up offering to help a new community understand how to develop
> community-driven software, I say *you take the help*.  Period.  Same
> for Greg, which you apparently agreed based on some arbitrary N<=3.
>
> Again, I wish you and Fineract the best...
>
> --tim
>
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