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From Roman Shaposhnik <>
Subject Re: Reform of Incubator {was; [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator)
Date Sun, 26 Jul 2015 22:54:03 GMT
David, I think we've been there before a few month ago.
In my view, you're articulating collective (IPMC) vs.
personal (mentors) responsibility.

IIRC, we came to be on different sides of that divide.

I'll repeat again what I said in that discussion: I like
the mentor responsibility model a LOT for the same
reasons I like PMCs responsibility model. We don't
expect all of the ASF membership to constantly
attend to running every project -- we expect PMC to do
that. We expect the board to be effective at striking
the balance of not micromanaging while at the same
time coming down as a ton of bricks when they do
identify an issue worth reacting to. The model works.
I don't see why it can't work for podlings.

I'll specifically abstain from commenting on the Ignite
graduation (few last paragraphs) since I'd like this
thread to be 100% separate from that discussion.


On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 12:35 PM, David Nalley <> wrote:
>> Empower the Mentors to run the podlings, teach the newcomers and bring it
>> to TLP.
> As a mentor of podlings, I dislike the above idea.
> Mentors get busy, they miss things, sometimes big things. Sometimes
> things that are obvious to an outsider are missed by mentors who don't
> catch it. I've certainly been guilty of missing things, and having an
> 'outside IPMC member' call attention to that has caused me to go find
> not just that problem, but other problems with a podling.
> Even on smaller issues, Justin and Sebb run circles around me in
> validating that releases comply with policy. I've voted affirmatively
> on releases that Justin or Sebb has found issues; occasionally glaring
> issues. I do not think that just because I am a mentor on $project and
> they aren't invalidates concerns they may raise. I may have additional
> insight, and be able to explain things.
> Similarly, a vote was brought to the IPMC as to whether or not to
> recommend graduation. We asked people to inspect the podling and vote,
> and for some reason seem displeased when everyone doesn't unanimously
> agree with the mentors. I am not sure whether to interpret that as
> 'non-mentor IPMC votes are discouraged', or whether 'dissenting
> opinions are discouraged'. But telling the body responsible (the IPMC)
> to leave podlings in its charge alone, particularly when prompted by a
> vote called by the podling itself hardly seems appropriate.
> --David
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