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From Marvin Humphrey <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Communicating intent around non-release, downstream integration binary artifacts
Date Tue, 23 Jun 2015 05:16:06 GMT
On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 9:06 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <> wrote:

> The biggest source of confusion that I personally witnessed
> comes from interpreting 'general public' vs. 'developers'.
> The problem there seems to come from the false assumption
> that our projects always have a user base that is non-developer
> in nature. For projects like libraries or frameworks this is simply
> not the case. The end-users of such projects are always, by
> definition, developers.

The distinction is between people who develop the Apache product, and
those who use the Apache product.

> How am I supposed to invite all the downstream developers of the
> world to start integrating with my awesome feature FOO before it
> gets formally released when our policy makes statement like:
> "If the general public is being instructed to download a package,
> then that package has been released."

Rather than invite them in before you make a release, why not release
first and then invite them in?

> Are we really suggesting that I can not present at conference, tweet
> and otherwise promote the awesomeness of my project based on
> 'what's coming'?

Why not release before presenting, tweeting, or promoting?

> IOW, I would like to focus on answering the question of how can we
> empower our communities to effectively communicate *their* intent
> of how *they* expect an artifact to be consumed.

They can communicate their intent by voting on a release.

> After all, we have a really good way of communicating that type of intent
> when it comes to branding: if you want to communicate that Apache
> FOO is a poddling you MUST refer to it as Apache FOO (incubating).
> Simple and effective. Exact opposite of our release policy that seems
> to completely discount labeling for communicating intent. I'm sorry,
> but a -SNAPSHOT labeling of a version ID communicates as much
> (if not more) to me as a writing on a website does. Lets just recognize
> that.

If artifacts are being consumed by people other than those who develop
the Apache product, those artifacts need to be vetted and voted.

Marvin Humphrey

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