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From Shane Curcuru <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Freemarker Incubation proposal
Date Fri, 05 Jun 2015 12:03:22 GMT
On 6/2/15 8:02 PM, Ralph Goers wrote:
> I would proceed with the plan that the project will succeed in
> graduating.

+1.  Focus on the positive, and finding new community contributors.
Trying to incubate while regularly talking about "well, if we don't make
it, we're going to leave and do X" is not a welcoming feeling.

> Usually project names stay with the ASF. I am not sure what the
> policy would be for a project that failed to graduate. I would
> suspect the project could keep it after leaving.  However, if the
> project fails to graduate the likelihood of it succeeding anywhere
> would be minimal.

The ASF owns all trademarks on behalf of our project communities.  For
top level projects (TLPs), the intent is to keep all trademarks: as a
non-profit public charity, we have a duty to try to keep the reputation
of top level projects for the public good.

For Incubating projects, we explicitly note that they are *not* top
level projects, so the policy is different than for TLPs.  If a podling
community fails to graduate, but is acting in good faith, the ASF would
be happy to arrange any trademark transfers back to the original owners.

We have had case(s) in the past where project donors with notable
trademarks asked for an explicit clause confirming the return of the
trademarks if Incubation fails, which we accepted, so that's OK.

In terms of the code, given that any code under SGA or developed during
incubation will be under the Apache license, of course the previous team
(or anyone else) is welcome to fork at any point.

- Shane

>> On Jun 2, 2015, at 4:42 PM, Daniel Dekany <> wrote:
>> That's certainly won't be a problem in reality, as Jacopo said.
>> What I'm curious about is if what happens if Freemarker gets into the
>> Incubator but then sadly later fails to graduate, so then it has to
>> continue outside ASF, probably with the earlier owners. I guess then
>> we will have to fork the work done during incubation (or can that be
>> given back with some kind of SLG?), which is messy (complicates the
>> license permanently, right?), but doable. But we will need to get the
>> product name back too! Is that "promised" formally somewhere, or how
>> does that go? Well, let's hope no such thing will happen, but still, I
>> should know this.
>> -- 
>> Thanks,
>> Daniel Dekany
>> Thursday, May 28, 2015, 11:39:17 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> On Thursday, May 28, 2015, Jacopo Cappellato <>
>>> wrote:
>>>> ...Should we move to the next step (that I think is starting a vote)?...
>>> I think so, with two comments:
>>> Having just two committers is very small but that can hopefully be solved
>>> during incubation.
>>> The proposal does not mention how the Freemarker name/trademark donation
>>> will be handled, if the copyright owners also own the name that won't be a
>>> problem. And anyway that can be solved during incubation, but if you can
>>> make sure before entering incubation that the name can be donated that's
>>> easier.
>>> -Bertrand
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