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From Siegfried Goeschl <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Freemarker Incubation proposal
Date Fri, 22 May 2015 18:13:39 GMT
Hi Daniel,

regarding “lower bar for project sexiness and buzzwordyness” - another options would be
using an existing ASF umbrella project, e.g. Apache Commons. There you find a lot “unsexy
but heavily used stuff” … ;-)


Siegfried Goeschl

> On 22 May 2015, at 19:31, Daniel Dekany <> wrote:
> Technically (i.e., in source code), I don't think Velocity and
> Freemarker can share much. It seems that they kind of share fate
> though. Apparently, everyone has something more important to
> contribute to. And that's fine, I say, because what put these template
> engines into the spotlight 15(?) years ago was Web MVC, and legacy
> JSP's deficiencies to server that paradigm. It was a hot topic back
> then. But nowadays, just like in the case of Velocity (apparently),
> finding guys who want to hack this project for free after coding all
> day at the workplace, and instead of being with their families and all
> that, is, well... challenging. And it seems companies don't care to
> invest either by putting paid developers on it. (Certainly the same
> companies wouldn't be too happy if Freemarker is suddenly EOL-ed,
> though.) I guess there's some kind lower bar in project sexiness and
> buzzwordyness under which life just stops when it comes to
> contributions. Those same properties aren't needed for the project
> being heavily used though.
> So that's where we stand. But does it mean these projects should die?
> I don't think so. Does it mean that these projects are not for Apache?
> I don't know that, you tell me! Surely I don't want FM to go into
> incubation if failure is the most probable outcome. Can the
> requirements for getting out from incubation successfully be
> quantified? For the kind of project like this?
> -- 
> Thanks,
> Daniel Dekany
> Friday, May 22, 2015, 2:44:03 AM, Ralph Goers wrote:
>> I used to use Apache Velocity. However, it hasn’t had a release
>> since 2010 and the overall project activity has been minimal for
>> years. As a consequence of that, and a feature that was missing, I
>> recently switched to using Freemarker for some templating work I
>> needed to do. The only reason I mention Velocity is I am wondering
>> what relationship these two projects should have, if any.  I am also
>> concerned that if interest in development of Freemarker is
>> decreasing is it going to suffer the same fate?  I guess what I am
>> wondering is if there is some way these two communities and/or technologies could
>> FWIW, I’d be happy to mentor this project. If I had the time I know
>> I’d want to commit, but that has been in extremely short supply of late.
>> Ralph
>>> On May 21, 2015, at 4:38 PM, Marvin Humphrey <> wrote:
>>> On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 7:11 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
>>> <> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Sergio Fernández <>
>>>>> ...If you'd need any other mentor, I'm happy to help there (I'm Incubator
>>>>> and ASF Member)...
>>>> Currently I see three mentors and two committers at
>>>>, I'm not involved
>>>> in that podling but it looks to me that additional committers might be
>>>> more useful than more mentors.
>>> 4 Mentors is a good number, though!
>>> It's true that there aren't many initial committers, but the proposal
>>> addresses this issue at length.
>>>   While it continues to have a large user base, the active developer
>>>   community has become rather small at this point, and we think that the
>>>   "Apache Way" governance model and being part of the ASF (together with
>>>   other projects that are already using Freemarker) would help to bring new
>>>   life and energy to the project to better support the maintenance and
>>>   improvements of the Freemarker codebase.
>>> I think this is a reasonable plan and definitely worth a shot at incubating.
>>> The Incubator has a mixed history with podlings that start small, but
>>> Freemarker has an advantage over many of those because it begins with a large
>>> user base and wide adoption.
>>> Marvin Humphrey
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