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From Jacopo Cappellato <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Freemarker Incubation proposal
Date Thu, 28 May 2015 08:14:04 GMT
Ok, I have updated the proposal to include the feedback received (there is a new paragraph
about the relationship with Velocity, Commons and I have added Ralph and Sergio as mentors).
Thanks to all of you.

Any other feedback? Should we move to the next step (that I think is starting a vote)?



On May 26, 2015, at 8:17 AM, Ralph Goers <> wrote:

> While that is certainly a valid option, I would think that would be a topic for determine
how to exit the incubator.  
> Ralph
>> On May 22, 2015, at 11:13 AM, Siegfried Goeschl <>
>> Hi Daniel,
>> regarding “lower bar for project sexiness and buzzwordyness” - another options
would be using an existing ASF umbrella project, e.g. Apache Commons. There you find a lot
“unsexy but heavily used stuff” … ;-)
>> Cheers,
>> Siegfried Goeschl
>>> On 22 May 2015, at 19:31, Daniel Dekany <> wrote:
>>> Technically (i.e., in source code), I don't think Velocity and
>>> Freemarker can share much. It seems that they kind of share fate
>>> though. Apparently, everyone has something more important to
>>> contribute to. And that's fine, I say, because what put these template
>>> engines into the spotlight 15(?) years ago was Web MVC, and legacy
>>> JSP's deficiencies to server that paradigm. It was a hot topic back
>>> then. But nowadays, just like in the case of Velocity (apparently),
>>> finding guys who want to hack this project for free after coding all
>>> day at the workplace, and instead of being with their families and all
>>> that, is, well... challenging. And it seems companies don't care to
>>> invest either by putting paid developers on it. (Certainly the same
>>> companies wouldn't be too happy if Freemarker is suddenly EOL-ed,
>>> though.) I guess there's some kind lower bar in project sexiness and
>>> buzzwordyness under which life just stops when it comes to
>>> contributions. Those same properties aren't needed for the project
>>> being heavily used though.
>>> So that's where we stand. But does it mean these projects should die?
>>> I don't think so. Does it mean that these projects are not for Apache?
>>> I don't know that, you tell me! Surely I don't want FM to go into
>>> incubation if failure is the most probable outcome. Can the
>>> requirements for getting out from incubation successfully be
>>> quantified? For the kind of project like this?
>>> -- 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Daniel Dekany
>>> Friday, May 22, 2015, 2:44:03 AM, Ralph Goers wrote:
>>>> I used to use Apache Velocity. However, it hasn’t had a release
>>>> since 2010 and the overall project activity has been minimal for
>>>> years. As a consequence of that, and a feature that was missing, I
>>>> recently switched to using Freemarker for some templating work I
>>>> needed to do. The only reason I mention Velocity is I am wondering
>>>> what relationship these two projects should have, if any.  I am also
>>>> concerned that if interest in development of Freemarker is
>>>> decreasing is it going to suffer the same fate?  I guess what I am
>>>> wondering is if there is some way these two communities and/or technologies
could combine?
>>>> FWIW, I’d be happy to mentor this project. If I had the time I know
>>>> I’d want to commit, but that has been in extremely short supply of late.
>>>> Ralph
>>>>> On May 21, 2015, at 4:38 PM, Marvin Humphrey <>
>>>>> On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 7:11 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
>>>>> <> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Sergio Fernández <>
>>>>>>> ...If you'd need any other mentor, I'm happy to help there (I'm
Incubator PMC
>>>>>>> and ASF Member)...
>>>>>> Currently I see three mentors and two committers at
>>>>>>, I'm not involved
>>>>>> in that podling but it looks to me that additional committers might
>>>>>> more useful than more mentors.
>>>>> 4 Mentors is a good number, though!
>>>>> It's true that there aren't many initial committers, but the proposal
>>>>> addresses this issue at length.
>>>>> While it continues to have a large user base, the active developer
>>>>> community has become rather small at this point, and we think that the
>>>>> "Apache Way" governance model and being part of the ASF (together with
>>>>> other projects that are already using Freemarker) would help to bring
>>>>> life and energy to the project to better support the maintenance and
>>>>> improvements of the Freemarker codebase.
>>>>> I think this is a reasonable plan and definitely worth a shot at incubating.
>>>>> The Incubator has a mixed history with podlings that start small, but
>>>>> Freemarker has an advantage over many of those because it begins with
a large
>>>>> user base and wide adoption.
>>>>> Marvin Humphrey
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