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From Daniel Dekany <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Freemarker Incubation proposal
Date Fri, 22 May 2015 17:31:29 GMT
Technically (i.e., in source code), I don't think Velocity and
Freemarker can share much. It seems that they kind of share fate
though. Apparently, everyone has something more important to
contribute to. And that's fine, I say, because what put these template
engines into the spotlight 15(?) years ago was Web MVC, and legacy
JSP's deficiencies to server that paradigm. It was a hot topic back
then. But nowadays, just like in the case of Velocity (apparently),
finding guys who want to hack this project for free after coding all
day at the workplace, and instead of being with their families and all
that, is, well... challenging. And it seems companies don't care to
invest either by putting paid developers on it. (Certainly the same
companies wouldn't be too happy if Freemarker is suddenly EOL-ed,
though.) I guess there's some kind lower bar in project sexiness and
buzzwordyness under which life just stops when it comes to
contributions. Those same properties aren't needed for the project
being heavily used though.

So that's where we stand. But does it mean these projects should die?
I don't think so. Does it mean that these projects are not for Apache?
I don't know that, you tell me! Surely I don't want FM to go into
incubation if failure is the most probable outcome. Can the
requirements for getting out from incubation successfully be
quantified? For the kind of project like this?

 Daniel Dekany

Friday, May 22, 2015, 2:44:03 AM, Ralph Goers wrote:

> I used to use Apache Velocity. However, it hasn’t had a release
> since 2010 and the overall project activity has been minimal for
> years. As a consequence of that, and a feature that was missing, I
> recently switched to using Freemarker for some templating work I
> needed to do. The only reason I mention Velocity is I am wondering
> what relationship these two projects should have, if any.  I am also
> concerned that if interest in development of Freemarker is
> decreasing is it going to suffer the same fate?  I guess what I am
> wondering is if there is some way these two communities and/or technologies could combine?
> FWIW, I’d be happy to mentor this project. If I had the time I know
> I’d want to commit, but that has been in extremely short supply of late.
> Ralph
>> On May 21, 2015, at 4:38 PM, Marvin Humphrey <> wrote:
>> On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 7:11 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
>> <> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Sergio Fernández <>
>>>> ...If you'd need any other mentor, I'm happy to help there (I'm Incubator
>>>> and ASF Member)...
>>> Currently I see three mentors and two committers at
>>>, I'm not involved
>>> in that podling but it looks to me that additional committers might be
>>> more useful than more mentors.
>> 4 Mentors is a good number, though!
>> It's true that there aren't many initial committers, but the proposal
>> addresses this issue at length.
>>    While it continues to have a large user base, the active developer
>>    community has become rather small at this point, and we think that the
>>    "Apache Way" governance model and being part of the ASF (together with
>>    other projects that are already using Freemarker) would help to bring new
>>    life and energy to the project to better support the maintenance and
>>    improvements of the Freemarker codebase.
>> I think this is a reasonable plan and definitely worth a shot at incubating.
>> The Incubator has a mixed history with podlings that start small, but
>> Freemarker has an advantage over many of those because it begins with a large
>> user base and wide adoption.
>> Marvin Humphrey
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