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From Ted Dunning <>
Subject Re: Next steps for various proposals (mentor re-boot, pTLP, etc.)
Date Fri, 23 Jan 2015 12:30:20 GMT
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 2:07 AM, Marvin Humphrey <>

> On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 4:14 AM, Ted Dunning <>
> wrote:
> > If you would like to characterize shepherds as cross-cutting
> > mentors-at-large, I wouldn't disagree.
> It's costly to produce such cross-cutting commentary.  Because the product
> ends up in the public report, it's risky to be candid -- recall the
> Drill shepherd review that raised objections: <>.
> Shepherds can diminish the risk either by spending more time gathering
> information, raising the cost, or by being more circumspect, diminishing
> the
> review's usefulness.  Both choices are suboptimal.

Hmm... you link to my own response there.  This shepherd report was
actually one of the things that I found really helpful in mentoring (and
contributing to) on the Drill incubation.

I really don't have a problem with a report like that going out as long as
somebody can answer it.  I answered it.  Dave paid attention.  The group
gained more knowledge about which aspects of a release are important to
Apache.  It was a very good thing, all in all.

> In any case, the Incubator struggles to get consistent shepherd
> participation.
> While the fact that Incubator shepherds are less accountable than Board
> members might keep participation under 100% any given month, my guess is
> that
> the main reason the number is under 50% and trending downward is
> cost/benefit
> ratio -- shepherds are making a rational choice to occupy themselves with
> tasks they perceive as less arduous and/or more rewarding.

My first reaction is that we need to make shepherding have higher rewards.
Maybe we make a rule that one isn't supposed to mention mentor status
publicly, but can put shepherd work on your resume.  :-) / 2

> Maybe the time will come to revisit this issue if shepherd participation
> flatlines, though that's not a very satisfying outcome...

Seems important enough to think about now.

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