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From "Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH)" <>
Subject RE: What is "The Apache Way"?
Date Thu, 08 Jan 2015 16:01:21 GMT
WTF? There have been presentations about the apache way at every ApacheCon for about 15 years
(twice in most years). I personally give 5-10 such presentations a year (sometimes public
sometimes not). I'm sure many others here do the same.

The Apache Way is really simple. There are very few immutable rules but anything that undermines
those rules is not part of the Apache Way.

The problem is not a lack of clarity its a lack of agreeing what does/does not undermine those
few immutable. The way we get around that is to have a group of members who define it and
take any action necessary to ensure the Apache Way is protected.

Those members can become IPMC members and help incoming projects learn the immutable rules
and how to evaluate whether an action will undermine those rules.

There is a process for building consensus around what is and is not acceptable. There is an
escalation process if consensus cannot be reached. In the IPMC it goes...

PPMC -> Mentors -> IPMC -> Board -> Members

In TLPs it is similar:

Community -> Committers -> PMC -> Board -> Members

Nobody expects the PPMC to understand. Everyone expects Members to understand, which means
everyone expects Mentors to understand (see how it is designed to be flat?)

This is not a top down organization where rules govern what we can do. It is not the boards
job to define policy, that's the members job (and the IPMC is mostly members). The board are
the end of the escalation chain, they break deadlocks only (and approve policies defined by
the membership).

Members should look to the board to enforce policy, not define it (Though Directors are members
and will be involved with the definition)

The Apache Way assumes that the best people to make decisions are the ones on the ground.
We assume that nobody understands everything about a project and its community and we assume
that people will not interfere where they don't have the expertise to do so. In the IPMC this
means mentors will more often come to the IPMC for guidance, this is to be expected. The IPMC
has committees to turn to for guidance (legal, marketing, brand, comdev etc.).

In the majority if cases this works very well here in the IPMC. In some cases it does not.
It is only the some cases we need be concerned about. Those cases are usually either projects
with inadequate mentoring or bad mentoring. I don't want to accuse anyone if bad mentoring
without evidence, so lets assume it is in attentiveness.


Sent from my Windows Phone
From: Marvin Humphrey<>
Sent: ‎1/‎7/‎2015 8:32 PM
Subject: What is "The Apache Way"?

On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 12:54 PM, Alan D. Cabrera <> wrote:

> Some podlings are graduating w/ no clear understanding of the Apache Way.

What is "The Apache Way"?  No one can say.

There is no bounded set of expectations that an Apache project must fulfill.

Where do Apache's official policies begin and end?  Which best practices
must be mastered?  What will be enforced, what will be ignored?

Every last podling graduates without a clear understanding of The Apache
Way, because it is impossible to attain a clear understanding of The Apache

We can't fix that by restructuring the Incubator.

Marvin Humphrey

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