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From Vinayak Borkar <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Release Apache VXQuery Incubating 0.2 (RC4)
Date Tue, 05 Nov 2013 02:30:12 GMT
Hi Marvin,

It has now been close to a month since my email to which you replied. We 
were short by one vote then and we are short by one vote today. In the 
meantime there were issues raised regarding the distribution of ODC-BY 
content which was discussed on LEGAL-182 as you know and appears to have 
reached "lazy consensus" that it is OK for VXQuery to distribute the 
content about a week and a half ago. However, we are still short one 
vote and cannot release.

At this time, I am not really sure what it is that the Incubator expects 
from the podling to make this release happen. It would be great if you 
have any ideas that could help us get this release out.


On 10/16/13 7:13 PM, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
> Hi Vinayak,
> On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 3:40 PM, Vinayak Borkar <> wrote:
>> It has been over 72 hours since the vote for the first VXQuery release has
>> been open, and we still do not have the one vote we need from an IPMC
>> member. I am unsure how this process works.
> For the last four months, I've been tracking the elapsed time between when a
> release candidate is published on a podling dev list and the arrival of the
> third IPMC +1 vote.  These stats are going into the Incubator's monthly
> report to the Board.  The average is roughly a week.
> However, it's not unusual for some release votes to take longer.  One of the
> risk factors associated with long VOTE times is incubating for a long time (as
> VXQuery has), because Mentors tend to drift away and leave a podling with
> insufficient active IPMC representation[1].
> Some VOTEs are outliers, though.  ODF Toolkit's last release waited 20 days;
> the recent VOTE for Allura's first incubating release stayed open for several
> weeks awaiting IPMC approval before the release candidate was finally
> withdrawn.  (We've yet to see a new one.)
> A number of us have been trying to address the structural flaws in the
> Incubator for several years now, but it is challenging to strike a balance
> between granting podlings more autonomy and exercising our oversight
> responsibilities -- so most proposals do not achieve consensus.  Personally, I
> now try to spend my cycles approaching the problem from another angle, by
> working on ways to lower the cost of reviewing releases.
>> Until a few weeks ago, we heard from quite a few vocal IPMC members about
>> how the project did not deserve to remain in incubation
> We don't want podlings to "remain in incubation" indefinitely -- we want them
> to either graduate, or retire.  Please take my followup of the VXQuery July
> report in that context -- and please understand that there's nothing wrong
> with retiring, since all software has a life cycle and sometimes it's better
> for the individual members of the community to move on to other interests.
> Nevertheless, graduation is of course the desired outcome every time a podling
> enters incubation and it is great to see VXQuery's increased activity.
>> because it was
>> unable to make a release.
> Apache projects release.  Communities which don't release don't belong here.
> Should VXQuery graduate and become a TLP, you will be expected to keep making
> releases according to Apache guidelines -- and demonstrating that the
> community is capable of making such releases is a crucial test.
>> Now there is an attempt at a release that has been voted in by the PPMC, but
>> there is complete radio silence on the vote.
> Be persistent and polite and eventually you will break through.
> If you are unlucky enough to duplicate Allura's experience, you can at least
> rest assured that the Board is going to hear about it.
>> I appeal to the same people who expressed their opinions a few weeks ago to
>> at least look at the release we have created and vote either for or against
>> it.
> I rarely perform freelance release reviews any more because the current system
> infuriates me and I do not wish to spend my volunteer time perpetuating it.
> However, I'm pleased that the opportunity arose to contribute via the ODC-BY
> licencing question.
> Good luck,
> Marvin Humphrey
> [1] For more thoughts on the subject of Mentor attrition, see
>      <>.
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