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From "Mattmann, Chris A (398J)" <>
Subject Re: [META DISCUSS] talking about the overall state of this PMC
Date Wed, 08 May 2013 04:45:46 GMT
I would posit the exact same thing.

+1 my friend. This has been my whole point all along.


Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Stein <>
Reply-To: "" <>
Date: Tuesday, May 7, 2013 9:15 PM
To: "" <>
Subject: Re: [META DISCUSS] talking about the overall state of this PMC

>On a whole different direction, one way to "scale" is to shift from
>Incubator-managed podlings to Board-managed. The podling would
>effectively be a "TLP on probation". The Champion, Mentors, and Board
>would be providing oversight.
>I would posit that the Board is more capable of oversight than the
>IPMC. The Directors have signed up to spend a lot of time -- more than
>we expect of most volunteers. Not to mention the Board reviews 50+
>reports every month. Another five won't kill the Board :-P
>Thus, I might suggest that a proposed-podling may want to try the
>above approach. (I dunno if the Board would agree, but somebody has to
>formally ask!)
>On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Upayavira <> wrote:
>> The problem that most podlings I've been involved with, whilst having
>> six mentors, have ended up with just me playing any part. On paper, it
>> looks like these podlings are in a great place, in fact, they only have
>> a single active mentor.
>> What is wanted is to know who is, and who isn't active. To spot
>> problems. Benson's idea is to say that a simple 'I'm here' message would
>> really help the incubator PMC. I'd agree with that. The question is,
>> who's job is it to track all this. Should the PMC go look and do all the
>> leg-work, or should projects and their mentors take some of the load?
>> Really, the more responsibility is centralised, the less the incubator
>> will scale. Looking for ways that mentors can show their involvement is
>> a good thing. I guess that could be automated (grep through mail
>> archives for mentor email addresses each month), but until that happens,
>> I'd say it would be a good thing for mentors/champions to take some of
>> that load off the incubator PMC. It need merely be a reply to a Marvin
>> 'are you there' email.
>> Upayavira
>> On Tue, May 7, 2013, at 04:37 PM, Tim Williams wrote:
>>> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Benson Margulies
>>> wrote:
>>> > There was a consensus to add the Champion role, and we haven't even
>>> > tried it seriously, and now you propose to eliminate it.  That
>>> > seem reasonable to me. I'd rather try to make it useful and then
>>> > evaluate it. In other words, +1 to Bertrand.
>>> >
>>> > 'Holding mentors to their responsibility' as a completely generic
>>> > concept is an idea that constantly fails to reach a consensus, due to
>>> > the 'volunteer dilemma'.
>>> >
>>> > For others in this thread, I completely disagree that a monthly one
>>> > line edit to the XML file or a one line email is an unreasonable
>>> > burden.
>>> Fair enough, disagree.
>>> > Any mentor, let alone champion, for whom that is an
>>> > unreasonable burden should not have signed up in the first place.
>>> That's unfair.  I signed up to *mentor* not send silly heartbeat
>>> checks that exist because other podling's mentors failed to live up to
>>> their responsibility.  This feels beyond the minimal governance
>>> necessary and a solution to the wrong problem.  It'd helpful to say
>>> precisely what problem that this heartbeat is intended to solve, in
>>> that way, we are afforded the opportunity to propose an alternative
>>> solution - for example, by focusing on highlighting the problem
>>> mentors/podlings.
>>> Thanks,
>>> --tim
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