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From Upayavira>
Subject Re: [META DISCUSS] talking about the overall state of this PMC
Date Tue, 07 May 2013 15:55:09 GMT
The problem that most podlings I've been involved with, whilst having
six mentors, have ended up with just me playing any part. On paper, it
looks like these podlings are in a great place, in fact, they only have
a single active mentor.

What is wanted is to know who is, and who isn't active. To spot
problems. Benson's idea is to say that a simple 'I'm here' message would
really help the incubator PMC. I'd agree with that. The question is,
who's job is it to track all this. Should the PMC go look and do all the
leg-work, or should projects and their mentors take some of the load?
Really, the more responsibility is centralised, the less the incubator
will scale. Looking for ways that mentors can show their involvement is
a good thing. I guess that could be automated (grep through mail
archives for mentor email addresses each month), but until that happens,
I'd say it would be a good thing for mentors/champions to take some of
that load off the incubator PMC. It need merely be a reply to a Marvin
'are you there' email.


On Tue, May 7, 2013, at 04:37 PM, Tim Williams wrote:
> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Benson Margulies <>
> wrote:
> > There was a consensus to add the Champion role, and we haven't even
> > tried it seriously, and now you propose to eliminate it.  That doesn't
> > seem reasonable to me. I'd rather try to make it useful and then
> > evaluate it. In other words, +1 to Bertrand.
> >
> > 'Holding mentors to their responsibility' as a completely generic
> > concept is an idea that constantly fails to reach a consensus, due to
> > the 'volunteer dilemma'.
> >
> > For others in this thread, I completely disagree that a monthly one
> > line edit to the XML file or a one line email is an unreasonable
> > burden.
> Fair enough, disagree.
> > Any mentor, let alone champion, for whom that is an
> > unreasonable burden should not have signed up in the first place.
> That's unfair.  I signed up to *mentor* not send silly heartbeat
> checks that exist because other podling's mentors failed to live up to
> their responsibility.  This feels beyond the minimal governance
> necessary and a solution to the wrong problem.  It'd helpful to say
> precisely what problem that this heartbeat is intended to solve, in
> that way, we are afforded the opportunity to propose an alternative
> solution - for example, by focusing on highlighting the problem
> mentors/podlings.
> Thanks,
> --tim
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