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From Benson Margulies <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] [VOTE] HCatalog to Graduate and become part of Apache Hive
Date Thu, 14 Feb 2013 11:29:05 GMT
I'm not so much opinionated as confused here, perhaps because I have a
very linear view of governance.

I like to know how a vote fits into a governance structure or process,
and I've felt for some time that this case (podling goes to existing
TLP) is not well-explained by our structure.

Back in the days when subprojects were normal and valid, the incubator
had a role on behalf of' an existing TLP in supervising IP and
community behavior. Graduation meant: "OK, umbrella, we certify that
these people can behave like a project and have clean IP." And,
perhaps, the board actually established subprojects? It's all before
my time.

Now that subprojects are no longer in the picture, I don't even know
why the IPMC should ever incubate a podling *if the plan, from the
start, is to be part of some existing TLP.* So I have assumed that
HCatalog started out with the intention to grow into an entire TLP,
and came up with the Hive plan as a fallback.

To try to make this long story shorter, I think that we should make a
proposal to the board with a schema for handling this case that makes
sense in current conditions. I'm happy for it to be your schema, which
amounts, as I see it, to the board having a supervisory moment when
this happens, with an IPMC vote providing the same sort of strong
recommendation one way or the other that it does for establishing a

On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 12:49 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
<> wrote:
> Hi Benson,
> I saw your later email(s) and Incubator board report. It's fine and I
> think the message of my objection comes across.
> So thanks for that.
> One thing I wanted to comment on:
> On 2/13/13 4:10 AM, "Benson Margulies" <> wrote:
>>The obvious compromise is to ask them to report the vote result as it
>>happened, it seems to me, -1's and all. But where do you think that
>>they are reporting anything? There's nothing happening here at the
>>board level. There's no board resolution needed for a Hive committer
>>to type 'svn cp' on the hcatalog tree,
> Not by my counts. There's a *community* resolution and a recommendation to
> be made by the IPMC, nonetheless.
> Otherwise, the IPMC is pretty useless IMO, and more importantly, so is the
> Incubator.
> Why bother even incubating HCatalog? Hive could have simply svn cp'ed
> whatever code came in, or whatever code the podling arrived at, and
> Incubation would have stopped then. But we both know that's not the way it
> works. Even if a podling graduates to an existing TLP, go check out the
> past resolutions. You'll note there's a section in there that discharges
> the responsibility of the IPMC for the podling. So, yes, the IPMC *is*
> involved. And yes, the IPMC vote matters.
> Cheers,
> Chris
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