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From Greg Stein <>
Subject Re: Anticipating my reign of terror -- new idea for December
Date Wed, 07 Nov 2012 05:14:15 GMT
On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 7:14 AM, Benson Margulies <> wrote:
> 1. A number of people think that all mentors should have been signing all
> reports all along, so that changing the template as part of clarifying this
> is not a big deal.

Sure. The mentors should be part of the community. They are there to
demonstrate and help with managing the health of the community.

> 2. We need the shepherds to compensate for mentor shortages in addition to
> discovering those.

I disagree.

In short, you are conflating mentors with IPMC Members. They serve
*very* different roles.

Mentors are there to show the nascent community how to operate within
Apache. To answer questions, to guide, to demonstrate by example.
Hopefully, they will also directly participate in the work of the

IPMC Members (the shepherds) are there to assist with proper
oversight. In the past, the Mentors were not doing this. Following the
model of the Board, the shepherds were introduced to ensure that the
IPMC was performing its oversight job. As a whole, the IPMC was *not*
doing this. It was collecting reports (or more precisely, the VP was
collecting and passing them along while everybody else paid little
attention). It was very arguable that oversight was being performed,
beyond the *implicit* oversight of Mentors who were on the IPMC.

As you're aware, to properly protect committers, we need the chain of
oversight all the way up to the Board. The shepherds, in their role as
IPMC Members are ensuring that the IPMC is providing oversight of its
various podlings. This is reflected in the report to the Board, which
then performs its oversight protection, which completes the chain.

The roles of Mentors and shepherds are very different, and I do not
think you should attempt to conflate them.

The Mentor "sign-off" is really about demonstrating that the Mentor is
paying attention, and that the report is a reasonably accurate
representation of what is occuring within the community/code.



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