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From Ralph Goers <>
Subject Re: Evolution instead of a revolution (Was: Time to vote the chair?)
Date Sat, 04 Feb 2012 01:47:04 GMT

On Feb 3, 2012, at 5:27 PM, William A. Rowe Jr. wrote:

> On 2/3/2012 7:19 PM, Ross Gardler wrote:
>> On 4 February 2012 01:06, Ralph Goers <> wrote:
>>> The main problem I see, and what Joe seems to complain about a lot, is that mentors
seem to fail at mentoring.  Creating a
>>> project that reports to the board whose mentors stop mentoring just pushes the
problem to the board, which is IMO not what they
>>> should be having to deal with.
>> I agree. This proposal in its current form solves on problem (IPMC
>> inefficiencies) and moves another the problem (inadequate mentoring),
> No.
> The existing problem remains the revised problem.  Any solution applicable
> to the IPMC intervening in a dysfunctional PPMC applies to the Champion and
> VP, Incubator intervening in a dysfunctional PMC, Incubating.

So why wouldn't the VP, Incubator have a committee to help him?  Shoot even the Attic has
a committee.

> Except that the board is likely to be much less tolerant and much quicker
> to disband a failed effort that the motley band of IPMC has been.
> The problem set is identical, and this proposal does not address it any
> better or worse than the current committee structure.

Well, to be blunt, that sucks.

> The problem varies in one dimension only; in the IPMC, the general@ comes
> to the rescue of absent mentors.  That won't be possible in the revised
> structure without the rescuers signing up and committing to mentor the
> Project, Incubating as PMC members.  And since there are many complaints
> about insufficient commitment, this is probably not a bad thing.

Couldn't disagree more.  Getting rid of threads like these would make the list quite useful
as podlings could actually ask for help and not have to wade through endless discussions to
get it.  With the alternative the discussions will be forced to move to members@ or some other
obscure list.


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