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From Joe Schaefer <>
Subject Re: Fwd: mentoring individuals as well as projects
Date Wed, 01 Feb 2012 22:02:46 GMT
----- Original Message -----

> From: Marvin Humphrey <>
> To:; Joe Schaefer <>
> Cc: 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2012 3:03 PM
> Subject: Re: Fwd: mentoring individuals as well as projects
> On Wed, Feb 01, 2012 at 09:32:23AM -0800, Joe Schaefer wrote:
>>  I believe this is what Marvin is alluding to when he points out that
>>  compentent IPMC oversight is little more than an illusive myth on most
>>  of our podlings.
> A PPMC member, by virtue of their deep familiarity with the code base and
> close monitoring of ongoing development, is, once they have internalized ASF
> values and studied relevant legal issues, in a *better* position to review a
> release and protect their project's integrity than any Mentor.
>>  We rely on the committers to police themselves and we trust that they do,
>>  but we do not, as a group, empower such people to perform that work on
>>  behalf of the IPMC.
> Giving suitably diligent podling contributors real oversight responsibility
> and accountability while they are still in the Incubator, allowing them to
> serve alongside experienced Mentors, watch them, ask them questions and
> participate in their struggle... that's what, in my opinion, will prepare 
> them to become superior stewards of their projects after graduation.

Agreed Marvin, but we have a long way to go before people will ever realize
this approach will largely solve our outstanding problems regarding IPMC releases.
People have to feel comfortable relaxing control of the reigns, and let go
of the idea that only a very limited and special group of people are capable
of performing real oversight for the foundation.

It's not easy, and it's certainly not conducive to Western ways of thinking
about governance and society.  But it works.

IMO we should proceed the same way as always, by taking small and largely
reversible steps.  Let's expand the "experiment" I started in 2010 to another
handful of projects, and see what really happens.  I suggest we include
ManifoldCF for now.  Any others willing to participate?

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