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From Greg Stein <>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Bloodhound to join the Incubator
Date Tue, 03 Jan 2012 08:02:07 GMT
On Jan 3, 2012 2:30 AM, "Ralph Goers" <> wrote:
> On Jan 2, 2012, at 11:15 PM, Greg Stein wrote:
> > On Jan 2, 2012 10:51 PM, "Ralph Goers" <>
> >>
> >> Greg, I do not care one bit how much commit activity happens at Trac.
> > long as there is some kind of active community it is improper to fork it
> > without their permission.
> >
> > Eh? You ever read the "rules for revolutionaries" page? The basic
> > is: don't try to force two communities into one; when separate visions
> > the project occur, then separate them.
> >
> > I don't see it as our place to *judge* communities. If it is a fork, or
> > corporate spin-out, or a move, or brand new... All Good. We provide a
> > temporary home in the Incubator to see if it can become a good, proper,
> > healthy Apache community. We don't turn them away a-priori based on
> > history.
> Greg, this seems to be so much B.S as it apparently serves some
particular interest you have.

I have no financial interest, if that is what you're implying.

I *do* have an interest in seeing Bloodhound be successful. I've always
been very impressed with the approach the Trac people have taken. It is a
great tool. It is a great project, but I think it can be better.

Bugzilla is popuar, but crap. There is no other OSS issue tracker that is
good and popular. Trac is te closest, and (IMO) best hope for filling this
gap in the OSS toolset.

> A PMC I am on had this exact conversation with board members several
months ago regarding a code base the project is dependent on that is housed
outside the ASF which we were considering bringing in as a subproject. We
were told that under no circumstances could we fork the code without the
"owner's" blessing, regardless of what the license allowed us to do. To me,
this answer is black and white.

Not to me. :-)

> >
> > In my mind, the Trac core has slowed, and it needs revitalization and a
> > vision. Others may disagree, and do, and that's fine. But I don't think
> > is fine for us to make judgements of communities (or nascent ones!) who
> > want to try something new. To pick up and go in a direction that others
> > not heading, or do not have the time to make.
> I have no idea what you are saying. You ARE making a judgement on a
community by saying it isn't active enough and deserves to be forked.
 Again, some of your fellow board members have said the ASF isn't the place
for that.

As a person wanting to see Apache Bloodhound take off... yeah, I'm making a
judgement call on whether that can better occur at the ASF instead of
within the current Trac community. (fwiw, some of the ideas are
non-starters for Trac, so the *only* solution is do it outside the core

I'm saying that the *ASF* should avoid judging. We allow competition among
projects. We accept projects with hard problems and low chances of success.
We accept projects that some don't want us to. We should not judge. We
should provide a home to communities that want to be here.


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