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From Benson Margulies <>
Subject Re: Accumulo incubator proposal: Statement of Concern
Date Wed, 07 Sep 2011 10:45:15 GMT
Doug, I was criticizing my message, not yours in that respect. which
should have been clear from the comment justifying.

On Sep 6, 2011, at 10:07 PM, Doug Meil <> wrote:

> Greetings Benson,
> re: "top-posting is generally less than ideal"
> It's funny that you would say that, because there was a 17 message
> email-chain about Accumulo this past weekend that you participated in, and
> I noticed that you didn't tell any of those people that posting on this
> dist-list was a bad idea.
> ser
> re:  "pedigree"
> Pedigree is hardly what anybody is looking for.  I have been answering
> questions on the HBase dist-list for 2 years (yes, since HBase 0.20) and I
> can tell you personally that some of the people on the dist-list are
> brilliant, and others I wonder how they managed to turn their computer on
> (hey, did I just say that out loud?).
> But we try to answer all their questions just the same.
> I'll let the other HBase team members speak for themselves, but my request
> to ASF is that if somebody proposes something that nearly exactly like an
> existing ASF project, and it's implemented in the same language, and it
> even copies their code - shouldn't somebody at ASF ask the proposing team:
> "have you guys talked to the other project?"  Especially since, in this
> case, one of their claims is that HBase "can't do or has no plans" for
> something.
> It's all about community, isn't it?
> On 9/6/11 8:27 PM, "Benson Margulies" <> wrote:
>> Doug Meil,
>> Top-posting is generally less than idea, but I want to respond to the
>> overall theme of your message, not to individual points and sentences.
>> The attitude of various chunks of the US government to Open Source has
>> changed radically over the last few years. What would have been
>> institutionally impossible is now encouraged. It is unfair to
>> criticize these people for being under the radar when their management
>> told them to be under the radar and claim that the leopard cannot
>> change its spots. That situation has changed. The code base exists, it
>> serves a particular collection of needs, and here they are.
>> Lots of incubator proposals come from groups of people with little or
>> no prior track record at Apache or in Open Source at all. The point of
>> incubation is to give them a chance to either learn how to be an
>> Apache TLP -- or not. We do not tell people 'go away, you haven't
>> enough pedigree.' Mentors have more work to do when the nucleus of a
>> podling is comparatively inexperienced.
>> Further, I don't know of any policy of the ASF in general, or the
>> incubator in particular, that insists that a group of itch-scratchers
>> make any particular attempt to make any particular gesture towards any
>> particular existing community as a prerequisite of incubation. Five of
>> my friends and I could turn up here tomorrow with a proposal to fork
>> an existing TLP to scratch our particular itch, and, so far as I can
>> tell, the incubator PMC would evaluate the proposal on its merits,
>> independent of the fork.
>> You are of course entitled to your opinions and concerns, but if you
>> think that there is some policy that supports the position that PMC
>> members should vote -1 on this proposal due to these issues I wish you
>> would cite it.
>> In the past, committers of existing TLP's have been, well,
>> particularly vigilant in monitoring the progress of 'competing'
>> podlings. CXF was an example podling of this effect. You are, of
>> course, welcome to adopt that stance. You are also welcome to slurp up
>> every line of their code, once in place, if you think that HBase could
>> benefit from it.
>> Perhaps needless to say, but as a Mentor-in-waiting, I'm all in favor
>> of this proposal.
>> --benson margulies
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