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From Henri Yandell <>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] 3 month deadline on CLA item
Date Wed, 03 Aug 2011 04:13:31 GMT
Replying to each email in the thread:

> Robert wrote:

> In practice, the legal sign-off is often quite slow in arriving and
> people like to make a start.

That's a behaviour that needs to change :)


> Stefan wrote:

> Dealing with, completing is a different issue.

Agreed. It can take effort. A podling should be dealing with it from
the moment their vote is complete, it goes part in parcel with 'are we
transferring code to the ASF' and 'how the hell are we going to do

There are obviously times when the how is going to be tough.
OpenOffice is a good example where you'd hardly fault them for taking
time to import the code right.

> Currently I'm mentor of a podling where one of the original contributors
> who enthusiastically supported the move to the ASF has gone MIA for
> several month now without any sort of CLA or grant in sight.  In such a
> situation you hope your reminder mails have been lost, there is some
> sort of vacation and things will work out.  You wait until you realize
> it is time to act because nothing is going to happen.  In such a case
> three month get eaten up quickly.

And resolving this is the #1 priority issue for the project right? :)
This is exactly the reason to drive harder on this issue. Firstly
because the original contributor was active, so could have been pushed
harder on the CLA up front and secondly because now this is a huge
mine lying in wait - do you want to rewrite all of that contributor's
code? [obviously I don't know the details; could be it's a situation
where the previous license was fair enough, in which case I'd look to
just live with that license and wash my hands of it all :) ].


> Shane wrote:

> The real point is to find the most efficient and effective way for a small set of (often)
> newbies to build a healthy community that has clean code.

+1. I'm pointing to the copyright issue as critical, but in reality
it's not the critical item in the long term. I think failure to
resolve it early on is a sign of potential issues later on (or more
likely communication breakdown between mentors + podling etc; most of
the time I think this stuff is done but not recorded).

> From that perspective, is there some way to break up this action item into smaller steps
for the
> benefit of that *community*?  I.e. a way to show with some concrete step that they are
> progress, even if the final review is not yet complete?
> - List the code submitted or added to the podling that must have a grant.

+1. Documenting the who would be excellent when the individuals trying
to solve it later on try to figure things out. Often they weren't
there are the beginning.

> - All original code authors have been contacted to submit a grant or iCLA.
> - All original committers have been contacted to submit an iCLA.

Same thing?

> - All code remaining in repository is covered by grant/iCLA/etc.

I don't understand :)

I like the notion that the incoming code owners should be listed, and
then checked off against.

> I think 3 months is often too short, but I agree that we need to see better progress
towards the > final goal by podlings.

Agreed. I think 3 months is a good "so why aren't you done yet?" date.
Time for the PMC to indicate concern and put in place a board reported
date as when it's intended to be sorted out.


> Andy wrote:
> My experience with the Jena podling is that getting a Software Grant can take a seemingly
> time.  It's not a priority item for anyone in the the granting organisation so everything
just goes
> slow.  It took us about 8 months to do the process and that was a starting point of already
> discussions that, in principle, the organisation would make the grant.
> Keeping it at the top of the podling todo list is good - our mentors were good at doing

+1. It should be pretty easy when it's an organization and there's
only the one grant to get. 8 months is terrible (while I completely
understand the pain of navigating such waters). Any extra pressure we
can place to get the necessary individuals to meet up and make
decisions helps (in my experience).


So from this I seem to see support. I'll kick off a vote,
incorporating the feedback above.


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