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From Troy Howard <>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] Apache Rave project
Date Fri, 25 Feb 2011 10:25:19 GMT
My point was:

Bill made a statement, which though rather neutral and ambiguous,
seemed to indicate that he (or perhaps a silent mass of others) did
not think the proposal was such a good idea, due to the risks
associated with a significant amount of corporate support and
involvement. At least, that's how I interpreted it. Since then, the
response has been fairly one sided, supporting the project, and
unfortunately, Bill has not responded to fairly direct questions about
his intent or reasoning. I'd much rather be hearing more from him
about this issue than continuing to express my opinions.

In fact, some of the respondents have stated clearly that they missed
his point. To me, his point is obvious. He's expressing that perhaps
the known risks (which were accurately described in the proposal)
might be significant enough that no one is willing to vocally support
the proposal. Maybe they aren't significant enough to cause outcry,
but significant enough to cause unspoken concerns and a lack of direct
support because of it.

Again, I don't agree with that opinion, but I also don't think it
should be dismissed. So, supposing Bill does indeed have that assumed
perspective, and supposing that it is a valid perspective, and that
there may be other folks who aren't speaking up who have that
perspective, my point was that, in good faith, the project make a
concerted effort to address that concern, in the same way they would
address issues with the code: by making a JIRA issue for it,
scheduling it and resolving it.

Now, back to my opinion... worthy or not as it may be.  Clearly a lack
of response cannot be taken as positive or negative, a silent mass is
just that -- silent. No consent nor dissent expressed. Is that
sufficient to move forward? In this case, I think so, and I agree with
Upayavira's initial statements. I doubt if there is a large group of
people out there, silently disapproving and not speaking up. That's
very un-Apache, and thus, very unlikely for this situation. More than
likely, people are just too busy to give an encouraging word.

But, if someone does give voice to a concern, shouldn't that be taken
to heart? The responses I saw from Ross seemed dismissive, and that
raised enough concern, from my point of view that I felt like typing
up my opinion + solution, and hitting 'Send'. Assuming silent consent
is fine, but being dismissive of a voiced concern is not. Again,
that's my 'strong opinion, weakly held'.

Honestly, I have already said far more about this topic than I had any
intention to. Hopefully this lengthy message provides enough detail
into the inner workings of my mind that it satisfies any further
confusion as to what the heck I was talking about.


On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 5:33 PM, Hadrian Zbarcea <> wrote:
> Troy, I am not really sure what your point is. So you believe that:
>> I think the 'Known Risks' section in the proposal enumerates that
>> pretty clearly, so I won't repeat it.
> ... yet you raise an objection for somebody else who might think otherwise?
> Is that because you anticipate an objection and you want to prevent that by
> suggesting a solution that my prevent the objection to occur in the first place?
>> [...] My statements were meant to speak to
>> the folks who think otherwise, as a reasonable compromise (assuming
>> Bill's stance, and anyone who is quietly in agreement, is to not allow
>> it into the Incubator).
> Why not let the guys who have an objection speak for themselves?
> Regarding Bill's message, I didn't see him raising an objection, just making a valid
> Ate explained already both that it was addressed and the rationale for the wording in
the proposal.
>> I don't think my vote counts for much, but I'm a +1. ;)
> Well, the vote is on now.
> If I misunderstood your intentions I am sorry, but they are not very clear.
> Cheers,
> Hadrian
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