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From Joe Schaefer <>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] OpenCMIS incubator for Content Mangement Interoperability Services (CMIS)
Date Sun, 13 Dec 2009 00:41:16 GMT
----- Original Message ----

> From: Emmanuel Lcharny <>
> To:
> Sent: Sat, December 12, 2009 7:32:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] OpenCMIS incubator for Content Mangement Interoperability Services
> Michael Wechner a écrit :
> > Emmanuel Lcharny wrote:
> >> Michael Wechner a écrit :
> >>> Stefane Fermigier schrieb:
> >>>> OK, I personally believe this is in contradiction with the first 
> commandment of the Apache Way:
> >>>> 
> >>>> "*Community over Code* is a frequent saying that exemplifies ASF projects.

> Community uses Openness and Merit, expressed through Collaborative and Consensus 
> driven work, to build lasting projects that use a Pragmatic License. While a 
> diverse community is a requirement for every ASF project, we also expect people 
> to contribute as Individuals, and wear appropriate Hats."
> >>> 
> >>> I cannot see any contradiction. Can you explain where exactly you see the

> contradiction?
> >> Hi,
> >> 
> >> I just grab the description of both projects :
> >> 
> >> "OpenCMIS will deliver a Java implementation of the OASIS CMIS 
> specification."
> >> 
> >> "Apache Chemistry is a generic Java language implementation of the upcoming

> OASIS CMIS specification. "
> >> 
> >> I barely see how two communities working on two projects with the very same

> target can't collaborate and form the best possible community to fulfill this 
> target, leveraging the great people from both of the current project...
> >> 
> >> This is where I see a contradiction : it seems like there is some divergence

> on the technical side, which is not really the Incubator concern. What is 
> important to us is that a community is built, because it's the guarantee for a 
> long term existence for the project. We don't have the resources and time to 
> setup a darwinian process here :)
> > 
> > I am not sure what exactly you mean with "we", but I would argue that the CMS 
> community out there is rather large and has enough
> > potential to provide contributors for both projects.
> > 
> > It's up to each incubator project itself to build a healthy community and 
> AFAIK these rules are clear and in particular what it takes to leave the 
> incubator.
> > So either a project will make it or not. I am assuming this is what the 
> incubator is good for, right?
> Would the Incubator be a place where projects enter and try to develop and 
> succeed per their technical merit only, I would agree. But it involves people 
> with a limited timeframe (mentors, champion, PMC members), and I feel that it's 
> a bit a waste to see two projects trying to implement the exact same spec unable 
> to collaborate. I mean, both teams most certainly have their own merit, I won't 
> argue this point, but at some point a bit less ego and a bit more collaboration 
> will generate a better result.
> I see where Joe is going to with his "let both project get in and let's see 
> which one will survive", I can't help but thinking that beside the rules, there 
> is a spirit which is way more important.
> At least, let's try...

The way I see it the purpose of a proposal is to attract mentors to the proposal.
Given that Chemistry is already here, and contains lots of people who know how
to build communities around the code, I can understand the reluctance to support
a competing effort by some people.  But Apache is a big organization, certainly
big enough for two entries into the CMIS market if things work out that way.  But
I am always skeptical about a project with closed-source origins without a decent
contingent of Apache people already involved.

Let me also make it clear that I have no interest in either project, so my remarks
are meant to be taken as coming from a distance.


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