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From Greg Stein <>
Subject Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education (was: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)
Date Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:31:30 GMT
I have no idea why the term "Board" even comes up in your response.
What's that got to do with my problems with the IPMC attempting to
impose make-work on the svn podling?

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 13:03, William A. Rowe Jr. <> wrote:
> Greg Stein wrote:
>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 03:59, William A. Rowe, Jr. <> wrote:
>>> Greg Stein wrote:
>>>> Podlings should be shepherded *out* rather than held *in*.
>>> Hmmm... here you go again.  Do you really believe there's a mentor here
>>> who doesn't want to be 'done' with their task at hand, offering up a
>>> functioning project for graduation?  Mentors -do- exactly this, which
>>> is why your rants continue to read as disingenuous and insulting.
>> I'm not talking about mentors' desire to do this. I'm talking about
>> the structures that appear to be in place which work *against*
>> incubation and graduation.
>> And if you want to call a rant against meaningless constraints and
>> bureaucracy "insulting", then I'm okay with that.
> The fact is that mentors fix the process when it's broke.  If there is
> useless/worthless/redundant process going on here, then terrific!  Tell
> us, as a voice of the Board, what the Board is telling us we can drop.
> Or said another way, "patches welcome".
> I'm all for less work and less hassles.  We would be happy to rubber stamp
> our way all the way through graduation, if we believed that it build the
> projects which would remain viable and preserve ASF culture into this
> coming decade.
>>> We are glad the board has such confidence that the Incubator is producing
>>> effect meritocracies that collaborate effectively.  If your's is not the
>>> minority opinion, there is a much larger 'Insanity' thread to begin, which
>>> starts with [VOTE] and ends in "Dissolve Incubator?"
>> My point above was the Board, at least in the past(*), has *not* been
>> happy about the average duration. Go poll the Board today, if you'd
>> like.
> Happiness and constructive feedback are orthogonal here.  The board (or one
> or more board members) have rang in on specific issues, and helped make some
> problems go away, and created others.  Feel free to constructively participate
> in refining that process.
>> AFAIK, the Board has never expressed a lack of confidence in the
>> Incubator, other than duration.
> That's good to hear, now bring us more suggestions that don't stack on
> additional bureaucracy or bullet items to the process :)  But don't sit and
> holler that what has evolved is worthless.  Launch a constructive dialog
> about fine tuning it; evolution is an ongoing process.
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