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From "William A. Rowe Jr." <>
Subject Re: Insanity. Apache Incubator should be about education (was: [PROPOSAL][VOTE] Subversion)
Date Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:03:13 GMT
Greg Stein wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 03:59, William A. Rowe, Jr. <> wrote:
>> Greg Stein wrote:
>>> Podlings should be shepherded *out* rather than held *in*.
>> Hmmm... here you go again.  Do you really believe there's a mentor here
>> who doesn't want to be 'done' with their task at hand, offering up a
>> functioning project for graduation?  Mentors -do- exactly this, which
>> is why your rants continue to read as disingenuous and insulting.
> I'm not talking about mentors' desire to do this. I'm talking about
> the structures that appear to be in place which work *against*
> incubation and graduation.
> And if you want to call a rant against meaningless constraints and
> bureaucracy "insulting", then I'm okay with that.

The fact is that mentors fix the process when it's broke.  If there is
useless/worthless/redundant process going on here, then terrific!  Tell
us, as a voice of the Board, what the Board is telling us we can drop.

Or said another way, "patches welcome".

I'm all for less work and less hassles.  We would be happy to rubber stamp
our way all the way through graduation, if we believed that it build the
projects which would remain viable and preserve ASF culture into this
coming decade.

>> We are glad the board has such confidence that the Incubator is producing
>> effect meritocracies that collaborate effectively.  If your's is not the
>> minority opinion, there is a much larger 'Insanity' thread to begin, which
>> starts with [VOTE] and ends in "Dissolve Incubator?"
> My point above was the Board, at least in the past(*), has *not* been
> happy about the average duration. Go poll the Board today, if you'd
> like.

Happiness and constructive feedback are orthogonal here.  The board (or one
or more board members) have rang in on specific issues, and helped make some
problems go away, and created others.  Feel free to constructively participate
in refining that process.

> AFAIK, the Board has never expressed a lack of confidence in the
> Incubator, other than duration.

That's good to hear, now bring us more suggestions that don't stack on
additional bureaucracy or bullet items to the process :)  But don't sit and
holler that what has evolved is worthless.  Launch a constructive dialog
about fine tuning it; evolution is an ongoing process.

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