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From Robert Burrell Donkin <>
Subject Re: Encouraging TLPs to Game The System [WAS Re: [PROPOSAL] Commons Incubator]
Date Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:56:08 GMT
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 10:14 AM, Martijn Dashorst
<> wrote:
> We have enough instruments and proof that the incubator works for
> small projects as well. Ivy is one such project.

there's always an exception to any rule :-)

though a small codebase, ivy had quite a broad community and the ant
project really wanted it

other projects might have decided to do an IP import and then just
elect the few contributors who weren't already apache committers, and
that's my point. i don't see this as a judgement call but as gaming
the incubation system. i understand why TLPs feel like it's necessary
to game the system since the incubator has - in the past - been overly
focussed on opening up large closed source projects. let's fix that
and ask projects to bring imports with community through the

it's possible to make the system work but ATM the friction is too
great for most small communities. i think the IPMC understands now how
to fix this (different tests for community viability need to be
applied to podlings aiming to graduation as a sub-project). once the
friction has been removed, it should be possible for small communities
to move through incubation relatively quickly given active support
from the target sub-project.

in infrastructure terms, i do worry about the cost of incubation. for
small code bases clearly targetted at a sub-project from the start, it
might be easier to maintain sandboxes here in the incubator sharing
common list, subversion and permission infrastructure on a per TLP

- robert

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