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From "Mankovskii, Serge" <>
Subject RE: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
Date Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:50:12 GMT
Hi Sanjiva,

I think there is a lot of synergy between open source community and
university community. It is an interesting discussion to have. I am
talking to Ontario agencies responsible for innovation in the province
on that. We are thinking about a framework that would help to foster
university/open source connection and help it grow.

Thank you fro the offer to mentor the project. In respect to a Champion,
I will follow in both directions. I will post the request in the and also will try to request Incubator PMC to
Champion the project. I am not sure how to request the PMC though.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [] 
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 4:56 PM
To: Mankovskii, Serge
Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects

Hi Serge,

Sorry to not have recognized the name .. small world eh? :-).

OK now I understand the project - I've been long advocating universities

to participate in open source as I see universities as our research 
division! That's the way we can beat any corporate research division

I'm happy to mentor it and champion it. However, let me try to find 
another champion though just because of practical time issues ..

In terms of sponsor- if you want the WS PMC to sponsor it then you need
make the request to Alternatively, we can ask the

Incubator PMC to sponsor it .. IMO that's easier and that sort of gives 
you more flexibility in deciding your final ASF home upon graduation.


Mankovskii, Serge wrote:
> Hi Sanjiva,
> It is great to hear from you! I think we've met during EDCIS 2002 in
> Beijing. Arno Jacobsen was there too. It looks like you know Peter
> Niblett for a while as well!
> It looks like at the movement that we are not able to secure a member
> Apache that would Champion and Sponsor us. I think we need to ask PMC
> do that. Can you help us there?
> Yes, there is code, and a lot of it. But the code is focused on the
> pub/sub matching, messaging, and federation. It does not use any of WS
> stack at the moment and it does not follow any standards. We are going
> to release this code and then work it into the standards stack. It
> bring results of six year research into the open source in a way that
> everybody would be able to use it. 
> Reference Implementation means that within the project there will be
> will be a distribution that would contain all that WS-N stack requires
> and no more or no less than that. To accomplish this objective within
> MUSE without totally re-implementing it might be a problem. 
> Cheers
> Serge
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sanjiva Weerawarana [] 
> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 10:45 PM
> To:
> Cc: Mankovskii, Serge;;
> Subject: Re: POLOKA proposal in context of existing Apache projects
> Deepal, that's cart before the horse .. this project needs to get to 
> graduation first :).
> Serge, are you asking for the WS PMC to sponsor this project for
> incubation?
> If so, how does this relate to the WS-Notification impl we already
> on 
> top of Axis2? (Muse?) Having one by no means does not mean there can't
> be 
> another; just trying to understand the relationship.
> Is there code already developed that you're looking to contribute to
> ASF? Or are you proposing to write new code?? The first line of the 
> proposal starts with "Poloka will be a standalone reference
> implementation 
> ..". Later text suggests there's working code, but if there is no
> working 
> code the right model is to join the existing community and build on
> codebase.
> What does "reference implementation" mean?
> [Hi Peter (Niblett)! Long time :) ..]
> Sanjiva.
> Deepal jayasinghe wrote:
>> I think we can keep this as the same level as Sandesha and Ramparrt.
>> mean we do not have any modules  other than core stuff under Axis2.
>> Deepal
>>> Serge,
>>> Unfortunately i won't be able to help much at this time due to time
>>> pressures. Hopefully one of my fellow PMC members may be interested
> in
>>> moving this forward. Best Wishes.
>>> thanks,
>>> dims
>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Mankovskii, Serge
>>> <> wrote:
>>>> Hi Davanum,
>>>> In our search for a Champion and Sponsor for the Poloka proposal
>>>> We looked into the
> Savan,
>>>> ServiceMix, Axis2, and MUSE projects.
>>>> We find that it makes most sense, so far, to have Poloka as a
> project under
>>>> Axis2. It also makes sense to go into the ServiceMix, that
> implements
>>>> WS-Notification already, but objectives of ServiceMix and POLOKA
>>>> somewhat different in respect to POLOKA goal to provide a
> stand-alone
>>>> reference implementation of the spec. Bringing entire ServiceMix in
> the
>>>> picture might be too much. However ServiceMix could benefit from
>>>> work in the future.
>>>> Poloka ( could create an Axis2 module
>>>> handlers creating a messaging network for a federation of Axis2
> servers.
>>>> This way we would be able to support
>>>> -       Standalone WS-Notification compliant notification producer
> and
>>>> notification consumer
>>>> -       Standalone WS-BrokeredNotification broker
>>>> -       Federation of WS-BrokeredNotification brokers.
>>>> It would make sense to integrate Savan functionality within Poloka
> as time
>>>> goes but not other way around. I think so because Poloka objective
> is
>>>> broader than Savan objective in respect to:
>>>>       - Broker support
>>>> Broker support is defined in WS-Notification and not in
>>>> Although it is possible that once a broker with WS-Eventing
> interface is
>>>> created, the picture might change.
>>>>       - Subscription
>>>> WS-Eventing defines subscription language based on XPath
> (content-based
>>>> semantic). WS-Notification defines subscription Filers using Topic
> Dialects
>>>> (topic-based semantic), XPath over message content (content-based
> semantic,
>>>> same as in WS-Eventing), and resource properties (optional and
> unclear
>>>> semantics, needs refinement in the spec).
>>>> -       Matching performance
>>>> It seems that we can improve performance of XPath matching based on
> the
>>>> research done by the PADRES
>>>> project. It would be equally applicable to WS-Notification and
> WS-Eventing.
>>>> Naweed Tajuddin, a Master student of Prof. Arno Jacobsen, is
>>>> specifically into this issue for his master thesis.
>>>> What do you think?
>>>> We are looking for the input and guidance of the Apache community
> moving
>>>> the POLOKA proposal forward. Please help!
>>>> Regards
>>>> Serge

Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation;
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.;
Member; Apache Software Foundation;
Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa;


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