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From Craig L Russell <Craig.Russ...@Sun.COM>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] Etch
Date Tue, 12 Aug 2008 18:06:35 GMT
+1 Well said.

Part of the silent majority,


On Aug 12, 2008, at 10:29 AM, scott comer wrote:

> as a scientist, i am getting somewhat bristly at all the rumor,  
> innuendo, and hyperbole around names. i've not seen any definitive  
> or measurable steps that can be take to ensure success. we're also  
> ignoring the silent majority which seems to like etch just fine. my  
> personal opinion is that the name is not the gating factor for  
> success. apache pig? really. success and web hits will derive from  
> being truly useful and trusted. it doesn't work the other way around.
> simply dictionary word names and result counts on google certainly  
> don't count. several apache projects are named with dictionary words  
> with significantly larger search result counts than etch.
> to state the obvious, what counts is that people can find you. i've  
> seen studies and information on how to try to game google's system.  
> many of them contradict each other, but everyone can agree that you  
> better be on the first page and with something clearly definitive  
> near the top of the first screen. from their info, two things matter:
> 1) links from various "definitive" sources to the etch page. this  
> can come from links from reviews,,, apache  
> home page, microsoft csharp page, python, ruby, wikipedia,  
>, etc. these things are not present now, but will be  
> shortly if we could get past this.
> 2) names must be memorable enough so that a casual reference in a  
> conversation can be turned into a successful search later. examples  
> of this might be "etch", "etch protocol", "etch java", etc. if you  
> search for "etch service description language" or "etch protocol"  
> right now you get to the right place. nothing is more off-putting  
> than a name which you cannot spell having only heard it. word  
> combinations are also out for the same reason, because people enter  
> them as two separate words. finally, if your name is intentionally  
> misspelled, watch out. google will suggest a better spelling and  
> people often automatically take its advice.
> the important thing right now is, i think, that searching now for  
> etch doesn't not reveal anything which is obviously competing  
> technology (east tennessee children's hospital is #1, debian #2,  
> etch a sketch #3). nothing obviously confusing comes up. therefore,  
> plenty of room for etch to elbow its way to the #1 spot, esp when  
> combined with other keywords.
> when choosing the name etch, we thought it important to choose a  
> short word which wasn't already a tech name. it needed to connote  
> writing and communication. it need to be easy to remember, etc.
> i really like the name etch, obviously, it is short and memorable  
> and mnemonic, i haven't seen anything which would indicate that a  
> successful and useful technology would not be adopted just because  
> of its name. changing the name now seems fussy and would muddy water  
> enough to confuse the small toe hold we already have (  
> article, cisco video presentations, existing cisco customers, etc.).  
> it isn't worth it right now without definitive proof that the new  
> name is better.
> let's hear from the silent majority!
> scott out
> Grant Ingersoll wrote:
>> On Aug 8, 2008, at 4:28 AM, James Dixson (jadixson) wrote:
>>> Simple put: a name change is work. Before I can accept the need to  
>>> do
>>> work, I want to clearly understand the benefits of doing it.
>>> Etch, while new to open-source, does have some awareness in a  
>>> technical
>>> community ( ). We have been  
>>> publicly
>>> pitching and distributing etch in our community for several months  
>>> now.
>>> People have been using the technology and for our current  
>>> community Etch
>>> != Debian. Granted, a couple of months is a short amount of time,  
>>> but it
>>> is something. Imposing a name change on our current community,  
>>> with the
>>> reasoning that the future community, would be unable to  
>>> differentiate
>>> between "Apache Etch" and the etch release Debian, would be  
>>> disruptive.
>> I don't think the argument is necessarily that the future community  
>> can't distinguish between Apache Etch and Debian, I think the  
>> argument is that the future community won't be able to find it,  
>> period, which means the future community may well be smaller than  
>> it would be w/ a more distinctive name.
>> Put it this way, you search for Hadoop, the top 10 on Google is all  
>> Apache Hadoop.  You search for Etch and you will be lucky to crack  
>> the top 10, me thinks, but who knows maybe you'll get enough rank  
>> to displace the Etch-a-Sketch and it will be a non-issue.
>> Of course, the work thing I understand, too, although it seems like  
>> a global search and replace wouldn't be that bad.  You also  
>> certainly could change it over time, even after being accepted into  
>> incubation, I think, just as long as it's done before first release.
>> FWIW, I like the name Etch :-)
>> -Grant
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Craig L Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System
408 276-5638
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!

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