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From "Les Hazlewood" <>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] Etch
Date Tue, 12 Aug 2008 18:41:29 GMT
+1  to Scott's comments.

I don't think the name is a significant conflict at all.  Debian Etch is a
release codename - regular references to it will fade away as the next
release surfaces, and the Apache Etch name, if it is a successful project,
should last much longer.  This would supplant recognition over time, so it
is not a big deal to keep the Etch name IMO.

Majorly silent,


On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 2:06 PM, Craig L Russell <>wrote:

> +1 Well said.
> Part of the silent majority,
> Craig
> On Aug 12, 2008, at 10:29 AM, scott comer wrote:
>  as a scientist, i am getting somewhat bristly at all the rumor, innuendo,
>> and hyperbole around names. i've not seen any definitive or measurable steps
>> that can be take to ensure success. we're also ignoring the silent majority
>> which seems to like etch just fine. my personal opinion is that the name is
>> not the gating factor for success. apache pig? really. success and web hits
>> will derive from being truly useful and trusted. it doesn't work the other
>> way around.
>> simply dictionary word names and result counts on google certainly don't
>> count. several apache projects are named with dictionary words with
>> significantly larger search result counts than etch.
>> to state the obvious, what counts is that people can find you. i've seen
>> studies and information on how to try to game google's system. many of them
>> contradict each other, but everyone can agree that you better be on the
>> first page and with something clearly definitive near the top of the first
>> screen. from their info, two things matter:
>> 1) links from various "definitive" sources to the etch page. this can come
>> from links from reviews,,, apache home page,
>> microsoft csharp page, python, ruby, wikipedia,, etc. these
>> things are not present now, but will be shortly if we could get past this.
>> 2) names must be memorable enough so that a casual reference in a
>> conversation can be turned into a successful search later. examples of this
>> might be "etch", "etch protocol", "etch java", etc. if you search for "etch
>> service description language" or "etch protocol" right now you get to the
>> right place. nothing is more off-putting than a name which you cannot spell
>> having only heard it. word combinations are also out for the same reason,
>> because people enter them as two separate words. finally, if your name is
>> intentionally misspelled, watch out. google will suggest a better spelling
>> and people often automatically take its advice.
>> the important thing right now is, i think, that searching now for etch
>> doesn't not reveal anything which is obviously competing technology (east
>> tennessee children's hospital is #1, debian #2, etch a sketch #3). nothing
>> obviously confusing comes up. therefore, plenty of room for etch to elbow
>> its way to the #1 spot, esp when combined with other keywords.
>> when choosing the name etch, we thought it important to choose a short
>> word which wasn't already a tech name. it needed to connote writing and
>> communication. it need to be easy to remember, etc.
>> i really like the name etch, obviously, it is short and memorable and
>> mnemonic, i haven't seen anything which would indicate that a successful and
>> useful technology would not be adopted just because of its name. changing
>> the name now seems fussy and would muddy water enough to confuse the small
>> toe hold we already have ( article, cisco video presentations,
>> existing cisco customers, etc.). it isn't worth it right now without
>> definitive proof that the new name is better.
>> let's hear from the silent majority!
>> scott out
>> Grant Ingersoll wrote:
>>> On Aug 8, 2008, at 4:28 AM, James Dixson (jadixson) wrote:
>>>  Simple put: a name change is work. Before I can accept the need to do
>>>> work, I want to clearly understand the benefits of doing it.
>>>> Etch, while new to open-source, does have some awareness in a technical
>>>> community ( ). We have been
>>>> publicly
>>>> pitching and distributing etch in our community for several months now.
>>>> People have been using the technology and for our current community Etch
>>>> != Debian. Granted, a couple of months is a short amount of time, but it
>>>> is something. Imposing a name change on our current community, with the
>>>> reasoning that the future community, would be unable to differentiate
>>>> between "Apache Etch" and the etch release Debian, would be disruptive.
>>> I don't think the argument is necessarily that the future community can't
>>> distinguish between Apache Etch and Debian, I think the argument is that the
>>> future community won't be able to find it, period, which means the future
>>> community may well be smaller than it would be w/ a more distinctive name.
>>> Put it this way, you search for Hadoop, the top 10 on Google is all
>>> Apache Hadoop.  You search for Etch and you will be lucky to crack the top
>>> 10, me thinks, but who knows maybe you'll get enough rank to displace the
>>> Etch-a-Sketch and it will be a non-issue.
>>> Of course, the work thing I understand, too, although it seems like a
>>> global search and replace wouldn't be that bad.  You also certainly could
>>> change it over time, even after being accepted into incubation, I think,
>>> just as long as it's done before first release.
>>> FWIW, I like the name Etch :-)
>>> -Grant
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> Craig L Russell
> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System
> 408 276-5638
> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!

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