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From Mike Edwards <>
Subject Re: Podling Committer policy
Date Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:45:52 GMT



ant elder wrote:
> On 6/7/07, Paul Fremantle <> wrote:
>> My apologies if I'm resurrecting something that was discussed 
>> extensively.
>> It has been pointed out to me that:
>> The actual votes are held on the private lists. I'm not sure I
>> understand that. I would have thought that - after having the pre-vote
>> discussion on the private lists, the main vote would happen on the
>> podling-dev and general@incubator lists.
>> Can someone please explain the logic to me?
> How come there hasn't been a formal [VOTE] on this as it's a policy change?
> Its quite hard to keep track of what the current incubator policy's are, at
> least [VOTE]s are easier to spot, with this its required just watching the
> guide history in SVN:

> Why did it need to change so that poddling votes are no longer binding when
> voting in new committers? When a poddling votes in a new committer the new
> person doesn't really get any power, their vote doesn't count for a release
> or anything, all they get is write access to the poddling SVN which isn't
> really even a 'real' apache project svn, and they will have submitted a
> CCLA, its almost like having to get IPMC approval just to attach code to a
> JIRA? This is also just for a new committer not a new PPMC member. The
> current guide says voting in a new PPMC member _doesn't_ need any binding
> IPMC votes, surely at least this should be swapped so its the new PPMC
> member that needs the binding IPMC votes not the new committer?
> The new way gives two ways of voting in a committer,  the private way, and
> the public way (which is described as inferior).
> The public way seems _really_ inferior because those IPMCers with binding
> votes haven't been involved in any of the private discussion yet so there's
> no assurances at all the the vote will pass which would be embarrassing for
> all those involved.
> The private way doesn't seem great either. If its anything like release
> votes it can take weeks and some off list prodding to get the votes but the
> poddling can't see what goes on on incubator private so they don't know if;
> its almost there; or any votes at all; or ongoing discussion; or if their
> email has even made it through moderation to the private list yet.
> How about changing it so;
> (1) incubator-private is notified that discussion of a new committer is
> starting on the poddling's private list so IPMCers can participate in that
> discussion;
> (2) when the actual vote happens the incubator is notified again so they 
> can
> participate on the poddlings mailing list (ie not voting /discussing on
> incubator-private where the poddling PPMC can't see whats going on);
> (3) the IPMC peoples votes are done by lazy consensus so as long as there
> are enough poddling PPMC votes the vote passes whether or not there are 3
> binding IPMC votes
> (4) the same (1) (2) (3) for a new PPMC member (maybe (3) should be dropped
> for a new PPMC member?)
>   ...ant

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