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From "William A. Rowe, Jr." <>
Subject Re: PPMC guidance on new committers
Date Fri, 01 Jun 2007 08:56:53 GMT
Martin Sebor wrote:
> Craig L Russell wrote:
>>> How could a PPMC participate in a vote on the Incubator PMC's private
>>> list?
>> It cannot, and I don't believe I implied that this would be the case.
>> The idea is that the PPMC, with the help of the Mentors, conducts a
>> discussion and a vote just as they would if they were a TLP PMC. What
>> we're trying to do in the incubator is to give the PPMC the
>> opportunity to act like a PMC and this committer discussion and vote
>> is one of the most important things to learn.
> How could they learn anything when some of the most important decisions
> were made behind closed doors (i.e., on the Incubator private list?)

Every ASF member has access to every private list (little known trivia,
but it's pretty obvious when you consider the role of the foundation,
through it's members, is to oversee the whole of the foundation.)

Of course, there's the edge case of PMC members who aren't members, but
let's not rehash that today :)

>>> Even if the PPMC's private list were CC'd on the initial vote
>>> there would be no way for the PPMC members to know whether they were
>>> being CC'd on all the relevant discussions and given sufficient
>>> opportunity to address any concerns.
>> I guess this would be the responsibility of the Mentors to carry any
>> feedback from the incubator PMC vote. During the incubator PMC vote,
>> the Mentors will be active in responding to any concerns of the
>> incubator PMC.
> That sounds backwards. Aren't each podling's mentors supposed to
> represent the Incubator PMC on the podling's PPMC? Doesn't the PMC
> trust the mentors to adequately represent them? It seems to me that
> if a mentor has reason to be concerned about a committer vote they
> can bring it up on the Incubator PMC list. Otherwise there should
> be no reason to involve it. If there are Incubator PMC members who
> are concerned about a podling's ability to make these type of
> decisions despite the oversight of its mentors they have the option
> of subscribing to the PPMC list or even becoming mentors themselves.
> Otherwise, it would be hard to argue that they have the insight
> necessary to make these types of fundamental decisions for the PPMC.

Well, this is a two way street.  As members, we represent our podlings
to the PMC, and represent the PMC to our podlings.  Of course every
PMC member is welcome to go back through the public/private archives
themselves, but it's much quicker when the mentors provide a summary.


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