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From Curt Arnold <>
Subject Re: [VOTE] log4net graduation
Date Wed, 14 Feb 2007 21:02:33 GMT

On Feb 14, 2007, at 7:02 AM, Yoav Shapira wrote:

> Hi,
> This is a bit of an unusual case and I'm not sure how to vote.
> Stuff that makes me worry about log4net:
> - The community seems to be shrinking, not growing, even though past
> status reports have made it a top point to expand the community.
> - There has been no release in almost a year, since 1.2.10 in March
> 2006, even though several status reports say a bug fix release is
> forthcoming.
> Stuff that makes me feel good:
> - All code cleared legally
> - All code ASL-licensed
> - Good interaction with its sponsoring TLP (Logging Services)
> - Vote for acceptance by the sponsoring TLP
> My specific concern is with the Incubator exit criterion of ""The
> project is not highly dependent on any single contributor  (there's at
> least 3 legally independent committers and there is no  single company
> or entity that is vital to the success of the project)".  The project
> doesn't meet that criterion now, does it?

Growing committers for an mature project is hard when most users are  
generally satisfied and most contributions are single-shot patches to  
address a users' particular interest.  The number of users submitting  
patches in the last year on JIRA indicates that the code is  
accessible enough that many users can contribute, though I could not  
identify any individual that had a pattern of contributions  
particularly addressing the concerns of others.

The overall community appears stable from reviewing the message  
counts on log4net-dev and log4net-user over the last several years.   
Maybe a slight decline, but not a drop off a cliff.

I do not believe any single company or entity is vital to the success  
of the project.  I believe the project has achieved its overall  
objectives and is already a success.  I do not believe that the  
project is highly dependent on any single contributor.  Loss of all  
the current active committers would not be desirable and would impact  
future maintenance releases, but would not be anywhere as fatal to  
the project as a minor loss during of a project in a construction or  
stabilization phase.

The project does meet the 3 legally independent committers criteria  
as long if you are generous with the recentness of the last commit or  
the nature of their changes.  Nicko Cadell and Ron Grabowski clearly  
satisfy the first two slots as active committers with no legal  
relationship.  Then there is the debatable 3rd committer:

Niall Daley: last commit 2005-12-16, last log4net-dev posting  
2007-02-11.   Partner in same firm as Nicko.

Gert Driesen: last commit 2005-12-11, last log4net-dev posting  
2006-03-09.  Not aware of any legal relationship.  Gert is an active  
NAnt committer and I have requested that he make a statement  
regarding his log4net involvement.

Curt Arnold, last commit 2007-02-09, last log4net-dev posting  
2007-02-14.  Logging PMC chair.  Have used and submitted patches  
against log4net in a previous lifetime (prior to log4net's migration  
to ASF) but have only monitored log4net and made a trivial commit  

There are a couple of manipulative ways of dressing up the  
situation.  I could fire up my .NET development environment and knock  
off a few patches or work up an Ant build to prove my log4net-foo or  
Gert could do the same to show that he is still engaged in the  
project or commit privileges could be granted a contributor who has  
submitted a decent patch but has established history.  I don't think  
any of these would actually benefit the project.

The release issue is a bit of chicken and egg.  A pending graduation  
would postpone preparation of a release (ahem, development snapshot)  
since you'd prefer to have graduation first then a release following  
with all the incubator disclaimers removed.  If that is the blocker,  
then the log4net-dev team could produce a release candidate with the  
incubator disclaimers removed, accept it on their dev list, inform  
the general@incubator and request another vote, and if successful  
request the Logging Services PMC to approve the release.

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