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From Roy T. Fielding <>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Policy on Initial Committership
Date Mon, 02 Oct 2006 21:02:54 GMT
On Oct 2, 2006, at 5:28 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
>> -1.  Of the people participating in a new project, the Mentors are  
>> the
>> least capable of selecting a PPMC.
> I don't think that's true. At least not in the case of CXF.

You mean it isn't always true.  I agree.  In general, however, it is
almost always true, and since we are talking about general incubation
policy in this thread (not CXF), we should not assume that the Mentors
have even the slightest clue about who deserves to be on the PPMC.

The fact of the matter is that the proposal contains a list of
initial committers, the people in that list agreed to lend
their names to the proposal in an effort to make it more appealing
for adoption by the Incubator PMC (or whatever other PMC is  
and thus it is the Incubator PMC that decides who will be on the PPMC.
That's what I vote for when asked to vote on a proposal, and as far
as I am concerned there will be no deviation from that list except
by voluntary removal or formal action of the PPMC (including *all*
of those people on that initial list as approved by the Incubator).

Beyond that, I have no opinion on the specific conditions in CXF.
I don't care what the PPMC decides to do provided that it is the
PPMC that makes the decisions and that decision is made on an Apache
mailing list.  Mentors have NO RIGHT and NO RESPONSIBILITY to make
decisions on behalf of a project as if they owned the project. The
Mentors are only there to help the project govern itself and, in
some cases, be counted as one of the people on the PPMC.

This is really important.  Fools may call it bureaucratic and too
much overhead for "open source", but it is that adherence to basic
principles of cooperative self-governance that allows an Apache
project to survive the passing of fools.  We exchange the efficiencies
of individual dictatorship for a less efficient process that requires
more people to be involved (and thus buy into) whatever decisions
need to be made.  We cannot short-circuit that process while trying
to instill it.


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