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From Sam Ruby <>
Subject Re: [discussion] Harmony podling to ask for vote for graduation
Date Wed, 18 Oct 2006 18:01:28 GMT
Mads Toftum wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2006 at 11:44:22PM -0500, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
>> The PPMC of the Apache Harmony incubator podling has voted to ask for
>> graduation from the Apache Incubator.  We have enjoyed our time here
>> with you, but feel that we don't want to overstay our welcome.  We want
>>  to do our part to help make sure the ASF has more projects than the
>> Incubator :)
> On the surface everything appears fine to the point of graduating minus
> the proving that you can do a release. But given past experiences with
> graduating large projects too fast, I'd be much in favor of keeping
> Harmony in incubation for another 6 months - it worries me slightly that
> you seem to be in haste to move on almost immediately after all
> requirements look ok, not giving it a bit of time to prove that this is
> not just a temporary state. Also there's the whole issue of Sun and
> opensourcing java - sure, it shouldn't affect Harmony directly, but on
> the other hand I see a risk there (not great, but they may surprise us).
> Just my EUR.02s worth on non-binding -1.
> vh
> Mads Toftum

re: "you seem to be in haste to move on almost immediately after all
requirements look ok", two things:

1) "you seem to be in haste" comes awfully close to attributing 
motivation.  I know that there were a number of discussions regarding 
length of incubation at ApacheCon, and while I did not discuss this with 
Geir there, this is another possible motivation (and very much in line 
with the words that Geir actually used).

2) "almost immediately after all requirements look ok" - isn't that 
exactly when this question should be brought up?

Harmony is on record as having started incubation on 2005-05-18. 
Another six months will bring it close to two years.  When I voted to 
establish the Incubator, I had no idea that incubation would be a 
multi-year effort, yet we have projects that have been in "active" 
incubation since 2003.

Issues like Sun once again claiming that they are considering changing 
the license to Java to an unspecified OSI compatible license are 
orthogonal to this whole discussion, particularly as Sun has been known 
for promising this in the past and reneging at the last possible moment.

Based on who I expect to be on the PMC once it is established, I have 
full confidence that these folks will continue to foster a community 
based on open collaboration, provide oversight, and tend to all the 
attendant legal concerns.  Furthermore -- and this was not the case 17 
months ago -- they appear to be solidly anchored with a codebase.

Question: is there anybody here who wishes to be actively involved in 
Harmony decisions, but are unwilling or unable to participate (or at 
least monitor) a Harmony PMC should it be established?

- Sam Ruby

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