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From Geir Magnusson Jr <>
Subject Re: [discussion] Harmony podling to ask for vote for graduation
Date Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:11:40 GMT

Daniel Kulp wrote:
> On Tuesday October 17 2006 12:44 am, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
>> The PPMC of the Apache Harmony incubator podling has voted to ask for
>> graduation from the Apache Incubator.  We have enjoyed our time here
>> with you, but feel that we don't want to overstay our welcome.  We want
>>  to do our part to help make sure the ASF has more projects than the
>> Incubator :)
> ---- snip ----
>> We won't have a release of this software until we are finished with
>> Java SE 5.  We may have milestone release late this quarter or in Q1 of
>> next year, but we wish to avoid hyping the capability of what we have,
>> and get our software stabilized and useful for general use.  Users are
>> very important to us, but we realize that there's a minimum amount of
>> functionality and stability required before it's interesting to the
>> casual user, and we're just reaching that point.
> I don't have a binding vote, but my thought is Harmony has the 
> same "issue" as Felix: namely they haven't done a release or provided 
> even a "test release" to the IPMC so the IPMC can be sure the podling 
> knows the proper way to do a release and understands and can correct all 
> the issues such as proper apache licensing, etc...    Basically, make 
> sure the podling can get all their "Apache Legal Ducks in a Row."

Legal ducks?  this project has a flock :)  And there is no requirement
for a release for graduation, is there?   (Ironic, since the early rule
in the incubator was that no releases were allowed ;)

This is a major project (at 1.3M lines of code and counting) with a
clearly defined deliverable (compatible java SE 5), and we're not ready
yet to release something.

We've been ultra careful about IP, licensing, copyright, notices from
the very beginning of the project.  Our codebase now has the new
copyright-free file header and license notice, as required.  We think we
have our act together as for notice, third party notice, license and
copyright files, but will caution you that we have several components
that can be combined in different ways, something we haven't yet decided
on for a release, which has implications for final notice/3rd party
file.  I note this only to give you some comfort that we've thought and
are still thinking about this.

That said, we're interested in fixing anything that needs to be fixed.

> Looking at the latest snapshot downloaded from the website, there 
> definitely are some things missing.  (mainly, stuff missing from the 
> META-INF of all the jars)

Can you please point to what's required and we'll have that done ASAP.

I know that including LICENSE and NOTICE is a "should" - considered a
best practice.  However, I just checked in that modification now, so our
builds here on out will have LICENSE and NOTICE in the jars.  I plan to
push a snapshot out tonight to resolve this.

> Anyway, I think Harmony should first go through the process of preparing a 
> release and get it OK'd by the IPMC.   There is a LOT a podling can learn 
> while going through that process.    Since Felix was "asked" to create a 
> sample release, I would expect Harmony should do the same.

Do we really need to pretend to release something?  This project has
been very focused on internal and external legal issues from the
beginning.  If this is a new incubator requirement, we'll certainly
comply, but it will be a fake release, because we're not ready to
release anything.


> Anyway, those are my (non-binding) thoughts.
> Dan
>> We'd like to help make this as efficient a process as possible - please
>> let us know if there are any issues that will prevent a successful vote
>> by the PMC on our graduation.  If there are no un-addressed issues in
>> the next 3 days, I'd like to call a vote late on Thursday, October
>> 19th, so we can possibly be finished in time for the next Board
>> meeting, October 25th.
>> Thanks, and we look forward to your comments.  To avoid cross-post
>> confusion, I will forward this message to the harmony-dev list rather
>> than CC.
>> geir
>> Champion and Mentor, Apache Harmony podling
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