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From Berin Lautenbach <>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Policy on Initial Committership
Date Mon, 02 Oct 2006 07:18:21 GMT
Roy T. Fielding wrote:

> The people listed in the proposal as committers are the PPMC.  If some
> project allows too many people to jump on the proposal at the beginning
> in order to make the proposal look better to Apache, then they are stuck
> with the results.  Don't like that answer?  Then dissolve the podling
> and start over.  Have committers that haven't bothered to contribute?
> Then vote them off the island, just like a real PMC.  Truth in  advertising
> demands that you follow the process as described in the proposal and
> use the Apache mailing lists for all project discussions.

+1.  Reading through this thread it reads like we want to have our cake 
and eat it to.

- We want to have a full proposal that we approve and vote on, then we 
want to ignore the bits of the proposal we don't like (initial list of 

- We want a podling to generate a community, but the first bit of 
community they build (the communal decision in a proposal as to who is 
allowed to commit) we decide we want to ignore.  Even worse, we now 
don't even want to allow them to even suggest that list - we want to 
create an arbitrary bureaucratic beast (the PPMC) that will make that 
decision for them.  (Before anyone jumps down my throat - I like the 
PPMC, but it should represent the community, not (within reason) enforce 
a style on the community.)

Personally I want to see community in action.  Let the initial list of 
committers in, make them the PPMC and watch what happens.  If we don't 
like the way it settles down - *then* we have a reason to step in and argue.

And as far as I'm concerned - if the people who wrote the proposal 
agreed to the names being on the list, then those names should 
automatically carry through as committers.  If you don't like the 
results - then as Roy says - "Vote them off the island".  But do it 
openly, do it transparently and do it on the lists.

BTW - There is a middle ground here.  There is nothing that says that 
the list of committers must carry through from podling to project.  Why 
not have a review prior to being made a project that looks at all 
commits?  If anyone on the initial list has never committed or 
contributed during the course of the incubation, then they get removed 
from the committer list.  That can even be a process that the PPMC votes 
on prior to exit.


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