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From "Cliff Schmidt" <>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Accept Glasgow into Incubator
Date Fri, 04 Aug 2006 23:13:32 GMT
On 8/4/06, Garrett Rooney <> wrote:
> On 8/4/06, J Aaron Farr <> wrote:
> > On 8/3/06, Mads Toftum <> wrote:
> > > On Thu, Aug 03, 2006 at 05:54:14PM -0400, Garrett Rooney wrote:
> > > > I'm sorry, but I have to vote -1 (binding).
> > > >
> > > I very much agree with Garretts concerns - and would be much in favor of
> > > not bringing the project into incubation before they have proven an
> > > actual community and that they can work the standard the "apache way".
> > > I feel it would look very much as an ASF endorsement of a standard that
> > > we may not have any influence on at all - maybe things will look
> > > different in a few months time, but right now I'm far from convinced.
> >
> > I understand that there are some specific circumstances in this case,
> > but in general I believe this sort of criteria is why we get
> > complaints that it's impossible to "innovate" at Apache any more.  We
> > require all the grunt work of innovation to occur outside of Apache.
> >
> > The issues of an open specification is one thing.  But aren't "proven
> > an actual community" and "work the standard 'apache way'" graduation
> > requirements, not entry requirements?  If we expect something coming
> > into the incubator to already have a fully functioning, health
> > Apache-style community, then the only point of the Incubator is for
> > handling licensing issues.
> For what it's worth, I don't have any intrinsic problem with a group
> bringing some code to the ASF in an attempt to start a community
> around it, as long as that's what's actually happening.  The general
> feeling I got from reading the mail around this proposal wasn't
> leaning in that direction, now that could just be a missunderstanding
> on my part, but it is part of what convinced me to vote -1.

Of course everyone should make their own minds about this after a
careful reading of the threads  (and may see things differently),

I wouldn't have agreed to champion the proposal if I had the sense
there was not a commitment to create an open/transparent/meritocratic
community around the project;

nor would I, as a mentor, ever allow any project to move through
incubation without actively working to create such a community.


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