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From "William A. Rowe, Jr." <>
Subject Re: IRC Channel?
Date Fri, 18 Aug 2006 03:56:36 GMT
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> Eelco Hillenius wrote:
>>>> Hmm, that's not universally true though - Over the last year or so,
>>>> SF mailing lists have have various /prolonged/ outages whereas
>>>> Freenode IRC has not (as far as I know).
>>> We don't use SF infrastructure.
>> But ASF has had infrastructure outages the last year, just like
>> codehaus and probably any other provider had.
> Oh, please.  We've had a fraction of the outages experienced by either of
> them, and if I take into account the number of times I have had network
> splits, much less been unable to participate in real-time, on Freenode,
> compared to the nicely asynchronous nature of e-mail, it isn't even a close
> comparison.

++1 - I think this explains the thought-process of some folks coming -into-
the ASF but it sure should be revised by the time they and their projects
graduate incubation :)

It should be clear to everyone that IRC isn't a substitute for email dialog
by now, but that it can be a debugging/troubleshooting/kick the can sort of
forum for generating ideas.  But ideas evolve on list not offlist.

Roy T. Fielding wrote:
> Hmm, IIRC, we already experimented on that issue and discovered the result.
> I think it was before your time, but APR was mostly "designed" on IRC
> and various in-person meetings.  I only have one thing to say about that:

Well, either we are speaking of pre-apr apache-apr (before my time and long
ago scuttled) or...

I trust Roy is confusing the fact that this was mostly pioneered by just a
few individuals working solo which steered the direction by 'showing us code',
and only occasionally rising to float design ideas/alternatives or explode
into debates over the 'one right way'.  This resulted in the ASF's longest
design debate thread, spelled out at great length on list, which then
resulted in an open meeting in SF to let them duke it out in realtime on the
whiteboard (markers at 20 paces :)  It was a very productive exercise which
eliminated *the* key obstacle to implementing filters in httpd.  That's the
only f2f I can think of in APR history which resulted in a design choice
being considered and 'announced' to the list rather than design ideas being
floated to the list.  But the entire meeting was an exercise in better
communicating what wasn't fitting into the form of email and had degenerated
into a "my idea your idea" diatribe.

But Roy speaks for most of the APR project participants...

"It's good though."


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