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From Matthieu Riou <>
Subject Re: Let's rewind!!! (Re: [VOTE] accept donation of a business process engine into the ServiceMix project)
Date Tue, 14 Feb 2006 21:38:08 GMT
> Also, I don't at all agree with your comparison of a BPEL Engine to
> Geronimo.  I would compare it to the transaction manager within
> Geronimo.  It's a discrete component, and we're not going to take the
> best of 20 different projects to make a transaction manager, and I
> don't see why we'd do the same to make a BPEL Engine.

I've been trying to stay out of the discussion so far because I'm
obviously partial (as a contributor on Agila BPEL), however I've seen
this opinion voiced many time on these threads and can't ignore it
anymore. Aaron it's not against you at all :)

I've worked enough on BPEL implementing it to say, really strongly,
that BPEL is very far from being a discrete component. You can see it
as something "behind the scene" when you're working on a JBI
container, however when you're interested in having an orchestration
layer, you really don't. I don't think Oracle, IBM and many other
editors would be so successful in selling their product if it was so

You really don't need a JBI container if you're only dealing with web
services interfaces. Actually my view on this was that an ESB is just
a communication bus around an orchestration layer. Quite the reverse
opinion, isn't it? And I can't see any JBI implementation dealing with
the BPEL grammar. Is the JBI implementation going to deal with
compensation, correlation and partner links? I don't think so. What
about editing BPEL process descriptions? And eventually, is the JBI
implementation going to provide BAM interfaces?

So the scope of a full BPEL implementation is quite large. I hope that
people working on the BPEL specs didn't hear too much about this
thread, that would be quite depressing :)

Matthieu Riou.

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