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From Craig McClanahan <>
Subject Re: AJAX Toolkit Framework Proposal
Date Wed, 21 Dec 2005 19:50:36 GMT
On 12/20/05, Sam Ruby <> wrote:
> Sylvain Wallez wrote:
> > Adam Peller wrote:
> [snip]
> > So the questions are:
> > - is the ASF the place for Eclipse extensions? I don't deny the ability
> > to _existing_ project to host their tooling, but this isn't the case
> here.
> As I mentioned, I was involved with these discussions.  The ASF doesn't
> tend to make these types of decisions based on the technical aspects of
> a project.  What impressed me about the people who were proposing this
> is that they were sincerely interested in the Apache License and
> collaboration model.

Belief in the Apache collaborative development model should certainly be a
prerequisite for acceptance into the Apache community (to me, that's the
thing that binds ASF as a community more strongly than anything else).  But
that, by itself, is not a compelling argument for combining these two
particular subprojects into a single proposal.  That strikes me as bad
software engineering, as well as bad social engineering.

>From a software engineering viewpoint, focusing on a single tool as a
delivery vehicle will tend to bias architectural and implementation
decisions towards what is easy to express in that particular tool.  It would
leave aside the little detail that not everyone interested in AJAX will be
using that tool, or will even be using Java.  I'd like to see the various
AJAX libraries, and the communities around them collaborate more ... but
that problem space is plenty big enough without figuring out bindings to
tool widgets, for a particular platform, at the same time.

>From a social engineering viewpoint, this particular combination of
subprojects would create a perception that Apache's support for AJAX is all
about what you can do in Eclipse.  That's too limiting a scope for what we
should be trying to achieve.  A better answer might be to separate the
tooling aspects from the framework aspects, and consider building a
community around "tools for building AJAX based applications" in general,
that consumes this technology but unoubtedly others as well, rather than
trying to  combine oil and water in the same project.


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