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From "Roy T. Fielding" <>
Subject Re: Is the incubator out of control?
Date Wed, 21 Dec 2005 20:57:59 GMT
On Dec 21, 2005, at 11:04 AM, Ted Leung wrote:
> How is this possible when any other PMC can vote to bring a project  
> in without approval of the incubator PMC?  Just look at the raft of  
> projects being brought in via Geronimo and the WS PMC.   There's  
> not a thing I can do, regardless of the merits.  The only thing I  
> can say is whether or not their community is good enough to merit  
> graduation.

Right, and that's the only thing you are qualified to do.  You don't
have the right to tell other people what they can or cannot do at
the ASF.  You don't have the right to say that one project is more
deserving of our resources than some other project.  What you do have
is the right to be involved, to help their incubation (or not), and
to vote against their graduation if you so desire.

>>> I think that the incubation process is setting an incredibly
>>> low bar for access to the Apache brand name

Methinks you have forgotten that there was no bar before incubator
existed -- the code was just copied to cvs.

>> And we require disclaimers and clear notice that projects ARE in the
>> Incubator.  Look at how the folks are complaining that we are  
>> trying to make
>> the projects look different by being in the Incubator.  They ARE  
>> different.
>> And they MUST be Incubator branded, and follow Incubation rules.
> Most people in the world are unaware of the difference between an  
> incubated project and an Apache project.  Roy has also stated that  
> once a project is in the incubator it ought to be regarded as an  
> Apache project.

That's because an Apache project is an EFFORT of the ASF.  It is not
some diploma that people receive at the end of graduation.  Everything
done at the ASF is an Apache project.  Some are organized better than
others, and some are allowed to make their own release decisions, but
all of them are collaborative projects using ASF infrastructure and
following the literal meaning of Contributor as defined in our license.
And, when needed, the board can terminate a project whether it is in
the incubator or not.

If people believe that the Incubator should not accept any new projects,
then they should convince the board to make it so.  The incubator is
the place where people wanting to work on new projects can do so
within a neutral environment with limited risk to the foundation.
If you think that such things should be done at SourceForge instead,
and that the ASF should only accept fully-formed communities after
they have a questionable track-record of IP contributions, then go
ahead and ask the board to shut down the incubator.

Right now, however, all I hear is belly-aching by people who have not
been doing any of the Incubator's work, nor that of infrastructure,
so have little basis to complain about anything.


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